Episode 181
Exploring John 15: The True Vine and Its Significance
The discourse provided within this podcast episode delves profoundly into the theological implications of John 15, where Jesus proclaims, "I am the true vine." This segment is meticulously crafted to elucidate the significance of Jesus' metaphorical representation as the vine, asserting the necessity of remaining connected to Him for the bearing of fruit. The speakers, Ryan and Brian, engage in a thoughtful dialogue that juxtaposes Jesus' assertion with Old Testament references, particularly emphasizing Israel's historical role as God's vineyard. This discussion reveals that while Israel was intended to produce good fruit, it ultimately yielded bad fruit, thereby establishing a contrast with Jesus, who embodies the fulfillment of that divine purpose. Hence, the episode articulates that Jesus not only assumes the role of the true vine but also invites His disciples to partake in a fruitful relationship characterized by obedience and love. The exploration of the terms "remain" and "abide" underscores an imperative for active engagement in the relationship with Christ, moving beyond mere passive existence to one of vibrant participation in His mission.
Takeaways:
- The podcast presents an in-depth discussion on John 15, emphasizing the metaphor of Jesus as the true vine.
- Listeners are encouraged to understand the significance of remaining in Jesus to bear good fruit as disciples.
- The relationship between obedience to Jesus' commands and remaining in His love is a critical theme explored in this episode.
- The concept of friendship with Jesus is examined, highlighting the responsibilities and benefits associated with such a relationship.
- The podcast draws parallels between the farewell discourses of Jesus and Moses, emphasizing the importance of choosing life and obedience.
- Listeners are reminded that true discipleship involves actively making other disciples, reflecting the love and teachings of Jesus.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Welcome back to Ryan and Brian's Bible Bistro.
Speaker B:I'm Ryan.
Speaker A:And I'm Brian.
Speaker B:This is the Bible Bistro, a podcast all about the Bible theology and all things.
Speaker A:Why do you make me say this every time?
Speaker B:Related to the Christian faith.
Speaker B:Back to the musicals.
Speaker A:And it's so, yeah, we haven't done a musical for a long time.
Speaker B:We haven't done a musical.
Speaker A:I, I was just gonna say we're both freezing today.
Speaker A:This is, we are recording this on one of the coldest days of the year.
Speaker B:Well, you might be freezing, but you were in my house recently and I have a fireplace and I bring fire smoked you out.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I was like taking off my sweatshirt.
Speaker A:I was like, oh, it's so hot here.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:No, your fire does feel good.
Speaker B:So anyway, yes, it is a nice cold day and I think most of our listeners are probably cold today as well.
Speaker B:But we're back.
Speaker B:We've wrapped Zechariah.
Speaker A:Zechariah.
Speaker A:I mean, I like Zechariah.
Speaker A:We could do it again right now and I'd be happy.
Speaker A:Okay, there we go.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:But we're going to do.
Speaker A:I was going to say we're doing something completely different, but we're actually not because we spend a lot of time in the Gospel of John.
Speaker A:But this is a little bit of a twist on it.
Speaker A:I'll go ahead and say it is because we're going to look at John 15 today and John 15 is one.
Speaker A:Obviously I've taught the Gospel of John.
Speaker A:I've gone through it.
Speaker A:I've looked at things there and made some points about it.
Speaker A:But you, you last semester in your master's program did a deep dive into John 15.
Speaker A:You really spent a lot of time researching it, came to some really interesting conclusions and so we decided we're going to do that.
Speaker A:So we're talking about John, but I'm not the one leading the discussion today.
Speaker B:Yeah, this is weird.
Speaker B:I'm going to be honest, this is weird for me because I'm usually here going, uh huh.
Speaker B:And you usually go, any thoughts or questions?
Speaker B:And I told you before we started this, I'm going to say to Brian, any thoughts or questions?
Speaker B:I'm sure you're going to have some thoughts and question, but anyway, no.
Speaker B:So I had the opportunity to jump into this last semester as part of my master's program.
Speaker B:I'm going to.
Speaker B:I have the cup here.
Speaker B:My wife set this out for me.
Speaker B:The Ozark Christian College, Lincoln Seminary.
Speaker A:Well, I'm representing.
Speaker A:You're representing Cincinnati for those of you who know, you know, for those who know.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Anyway, we.
Speaker B:So a part of my hermeneutics class was looking at it, you know, as one does in translating.
Speaker B:How do we interpret something?
Speaker B:Is to take a deep dive into a passage and figure some things out.
Speaker B:And so I knew I had you as a resource for John.
Speaker B:And so it was one of our.
Speaker A:Other passages I said to you when you started this, I said, I really haven't done like a deep dive into 15.
Speaker A:I'd never really, you know, I've looked at a lot, you know, I've spent a lot of time on certain beginning of 14, I know pretty well, you know, and middle of seven.
Speaker A:And there's some that I've spent a lot of time on and thought a lot about.
Speaker A:But 15 is kind of.
Speaker A:And it's a good passage.
Speaker A:It's the one that I've preached on, it's one that we've taught.
Speaker A:But it's, you know, I've not done some of the in depth work that you have and you're going to bring to us today.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, looking forward to it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So John 15, we're going to read it here in just a second.
Speaker B:But just to kind of give you a rough idea, this is when Jesus says, I am the true vine.
Speaker B:And he's talking about the disciples and the branches and all that stuff.
Speaker B:So I thought in true Bible bistro fashion, Brian, I'm going to have you read the first verse and just stop there.
Speaker A:Okay, I will do that.
Speaker A:Do it here.
Speaker A:I am.
Speaker A:I am the true vine and my father is the gardener.
Speaker B:All right, stop, stop, stop right there.
Speaker B:Let me say a few things about that.
Speaker B:I'm channeling all my Brian energy as I can right now.
Speaker A:Okay, there you go.
Speaker B:So as you're jumping in this paper is one of the things we looked at is, and we've talked about this a couple times, is some of these I am statements that Jesus.
Speaker B:This is a pretty important statement.
Speaker B:So I'm going to let you take over this a little bit because I'm going to talk more about the true vine and so forth.
Speaker B:But tell us about these I am statements that happen in John I am.
Speaker A:Statements are definitely distinctive of John.
Speaker A:We do have one in the Gospel of Mark and we have them some other places.
Speaker A:But in John they're pretty frequent and they're often.
Speaker A:So I am is technically a metaphor.
Speaker A:So he uses these ideas like I am the water of life.
Speaker A:I am the bread of life.
Speaker A:In chapter six, I am the bread that's come down from heaven.
Speaker A:He says in chapter six as well in chapter ten, I am the good shepherd.
Speaker A:I am the gate to the sheep.
Speaker A:So he uses these different metaphors to say something about his identity.
Speaker A:But here the idea is I am the true vine.
Speaker A:So this is a metaphor.
Speaker A:And what I mean by that, it's an image that he's using to say something about himself.
Speaker A:Often these I am statements are connected to long sections of teaching where he kind of expands on this and gives us further understanding about it.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But the other part of this that we have to, I think, think about is I am also has significant.
Speaker A:The reason I think this.
Speaker A:There's these absolute I am statements we've talked about in the Gospel of John, a couple of examples, in fact, I just preached yesterday on John chapter eight.
Speaker A:And he's having this long discussion, this long dispute with the Jews, the Jews who believed in him.
Speaker A:Again, I think probably Jewish leaders.
Speaker A:He's having this long discussion with in chapter eight.
Speaker A:It gets personal.
Speaker A:It gets eternity.
Speaker A:He starts saying, well, they say, who is your father?
Speaker A:And he's like, well, I know my father.
Speaker A:You don't even know your father.
Speaker A:And it kind of goes back and forth like that, a little bit like an episode of Maury Povich.
Speaker A:But then.
Speaker B:I did not have that on my bingo card talking about Jesus, John 15 and Maury Povich at the.
Speaker A:Very end, that's going to be the title of this episode.
Speaker A:At the very end of that chapter, he says, well, I tell you, Abraham would have loved to see my day.
Speaker A:In fact, he did see it and was glad.
Speaker A:And they're like, you're crazy.
Speaker A:You're not even 50 years old.
Speaker A:And Abraham, you lived at the time of Abraham.
Speaker A:And he says, I tell you the truth before Abraham was I am absolute, I am statement.
Speaker A:And when he uses it that way, it probably is taking us Back to Exodus 3, where God reveals to Moses the divine name is Yahweh, which translates.
Speaker A:Usually we translate to something like I am.
Speaker A:So even in I am the true vine and those kind of things, we think there may be an element of him making divine claims here as well.
Speaker A:That's the only thing I was going to say about that.
Speaker A:So here we have the true vine.
Speaker A:So tell us about that then, Ryan.
Speaker B:Well, and I should have said this before we get started.
Speaker B:You know, part of this work was looking at what else is going on around this passage at the same time.
Speaker B:And this is part of what was typically called the farewell discourse.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:So Jesus is getting.
Speaker B:Is preparing the disciples and himself.
Speaker B:He's you know, this is drawing.
Speaker B:The time is drawing near for his crucifixion here, right?
Speaker B:And so he's saying some things.
Speaker B:And so as I was looking into this farewell discourse, and we're going to hear a little bit about this later, is Jesus is telling his disciples, like, here's how I want you to live.
Speaker B:This is, you know, this is the benefit of living this way and so forth.
Speaker B:But I did some digging on farewell discourses, and what I discovered was really interesting, and this was really changed.
Speaker B:Kind of a perspective for me, as I was thinking about this is that, you know, we have some other famous farewell discourses in the Bible, and probably one of the more famous ones besides Jesus's obvious farewell discourse is Moses.
Speaker B:Farewell discourse.
Speaker B:As Moses has led the people, he's approaching Mount Nebo.
Speaker B:They're getting close to the promised land.
Speaker B:The time of wandering is over, and Moses is preparing the people for his leaving.
Speaker B:And that there's these.
Speaker B:Seems to be in these farewell discourses some pretty consistent things that happen.
Speaker B:And then one of those is telling the people when you're leaving how you want them to live.
Speaker B:Like, it's like a moral exhortation.
Speaker B:And so, Bryan, I think you've got a couple.
Speaker B:One of the.
Speaker B:We see this, the end of Deuteronomy.
Speaker B:So Deuteronomy.
Speaker B:I believe it's 31 through 33.
Speaker B:We kind of get into.
Speaker B:Moses is saying, but Deuteronomy 30, 15.
Speaker B:If you wouldn't mind reading that for us, Brian.
Speaker B:What's that say there?
Speaker A:Deuteronomy 30, 15 is where you wanted.
Speaker B:Yeah, okay.
Speaker A:I had that second one you mentioned.
Speaker A:Sorry, I apologize.
Speaker B:That's all right.
Speaker A:Just give me a minute.
Speaker B:I can pull it up.
Speaker A:I can pull it up.
Speaker A:No, I've got it.
Speaker A:I've got it.
Speaker A:I've got it.
Speaker A:3015.
Speaker A:See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction.
Speaker A:I should have remembered that.
Speaker A:Let me read it again.
Speaker A:C.
Speaker A:I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction.
Speaker B:Yeah, so this is kind of the beginning of.
Speaker B:He's kind of setting up this farewell discourse, but this is the beginning of Moses saying, like, I'm setting two paths before you, how you can live this way.
Speaker B:You know, life or death and destruction.
Speaker B:Life and prosperity, death and destruction.
Speaker B:And then what?
Speaker B:Pull up.
Speaker B:Look at that second one, Brian, that you had pulled up for us, if you would.
Speaker A:32.
Speaker A:What was the verse again?
Speaker A:Now I've left it now.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know.
Speaker B:32.
Speaker B:I knew you're gonna make me do this.
Speaker A:Oh, sorry.
Speaker B:Oh, it's at the very end of 30.
Speaker B:Oh, here it's 46 and 47.
Speaker B:Okay, 32, 46, and 47.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:There we go.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:This is Deuteronomy, chapter 32, 46, and 47.
Speaker A:He says, take to heart all the words.
Speaker A:I have solemnly declared to you this day so that you may command your children to obey carefully all the words of the law.
Speaker A:They are not just idle words for you.
Speaker A:They are your life.
Speaker A:By them, you will live long in the land you're crossing the Jordan to possess.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So Moses is again, he's preparing the people, and it's this final exhortation.
Speaker B:Here's how I want you to live.
Speaker B:And, like, there is life, you know?
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:And I love this, especially as we're gonna look here as we get back into John 15.
Speaker B:These are not just idle words for you.
Speaker B:Like, there's not just.
Speaker B:I'm not just saying this to you to say this to you.
Speaker B:These are words for you to live by.
Speaker B:And so, with this in mind, Moses has given this very famous farewell discourse.
Speaker B:And now we look at Jesus, and he's giving a farewell discourse.
Speaker B:And so this John 15 passage kind of lives in the middle of this farewell discourse.
Speaker B:And so as we'll go through this, we'll start to see some of the similar between some of what Moses has said to the people of Israel as he's preparing to leave, and now Jesus is saying to the people as he's preparing to leave.
Speaker B:Okay, so kind of keeping that in mind, and then we go onto the true vine.
Speaker B:And I also think this is really.
Speaker B:This is an important statement because of.
Speaker B:You know, I'm going to say this.
Speaker B:Sometimes there's so much symbolism.
Speaker B:You and I have done a podcast episode on symbolism and the Fourth Gospel and how important it is.
Speaker B:But this true vine really isn't just.
Speaker B:It's not just about vineyards.
Speaker B:It's about something in particular, and it's about the nation.
Speaker B:It's about the nation of Israel themselves.
Speaker B:So I think I also had you pull up Isaiah 5, Bryan, if you had that, would you read some of that Isaiah 5 for us?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Man, I'm really failing at the Ryan part of this.
Speaker A:This is harder than I thought.
Speaker A:Isaiah, chapter 5.
Speaker A:Starting in verse 1, I will sing for the one I love, a song about his vineyard.
Speaker A:My loved one had a vineyard on a fertile hillside.
Speaker A:He dug it up and cleared it of stones, Planted it with the choicest vines.
Speaker A:He built a watchtower in it and cut out a winepress as well.
Speaker A:Then he looked for a crop of good grapes, but it yielded only bad fruit.
Speaker A:Now, you dwellers in Jerusalem and people of Judah, judge between me and my vineyard, what more could have been done for my vineyard than I have done for it?
Speaker A:When I looked for good grapes, why did it yield only bad?
Speaker A:Now I will tell you what I am going to do to my vineyard.
Speaker A:I will take away its hedge and it will be destroyed.
Speaker A:I will break down its wall and it will be trampled.
Speaker A:I will make it a wasteland, neither pruned nor cultivated.
Speaker A:When briers and thorns will grow there, I will command the clouds not to rain on it.
Speaker A:The vineyard of the Lord Almighty is the nation of Israel and the people of Judah.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:So, Bryan, is it about a vineyard?
Speaker B:Here is the vineyard.
Speaker B:In Isaiah.
Speaker B:Who is the vineyard In Isaiah, it.
Speaker A:Says it is Israel, and the people of Judah are its vines.
Speaker B:So, yes.
Speaker B:And what.
Speaker B:What had God done?
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:What did it say that God had done for.
Speaker B:For this vineyard?
Speaker A:Basically, he'd prepared it and protected it and planted it.
Speaker A:You know, he's the one who.
Speaker A:Who had cared for it.
Speaker A:Just like we see in the.
Speaker A:In John, John 15, I guess that.
Speaker B:God is the gardener.
Speaker B:And as we look back at the nation of Israel, this is the nation of Israel back in Isaiah, and God has said, I have done everything.
Speaker B:Like, he asked the question, what more could have been done here?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And so we see that this vine, even though all of this work had been done for the vine, for the vineyard that is Israel, like all the stuff, the stones had been cleared, a hedge of protection had been put up, and, you know, Isaiah, God, through Isaiah is asking the question, what more could have been done?
Speaker B:And the answer is, it's rhetorical.
Speaker A:Nothing, right?
Speaker B:Nothing.
Speaker B:Nothing more could have been done.
Speaker B:So we have this idea that these are God's chosen people.
Speaker B:They have been given everything that they need to succeed, seemingly, and yet they still do not succeed.
Speaker B:They bear only bad fruit.
Speaker B:And so it's in this, and this is a very common understanding.
Speaker B:We've talked about this a little bit when we talked about the upper room discourse.
Speaker B:That's part of this, that when Jesus, the disciples get up and leave, talking about some of this right before this, as we've talked about this, but Josephus has written that on the front of the temple, there is a golden, golden vine.
Speaker B:Golden vine.
Speaker B:So the nation of Israel at this time, when they hear vine or vineyard, they're thinking of themselves.
Speaker B:You know, they're thinking of themselves as the source that God has planted.
Speaker B:And so Here at the very beginning, we have Jesus saying, I am the true vine.
Speaker B:Now, at this point, so Jesus is setting himself up as something.
Speaker B:So if Israel was the vine before was the vineyard before, Jesus is setting himself up here very clearly that he is in some ways taking on the mantle of Israel.
Speaker B:He's taking on the role that they did.
Speaker B:So there's a lot happening here in this first verse that you kind of get to that, you know, we're getting this idea that Jesus is.
Speaker B:He's kind of replacing Israel.
Speaker B:And, you know, now he hasn't said that he's going to bear good fruit, but that's the implication here, and we'll get to that here in just a little bit.
Speaker B:But at the beginning, he is the true vine that he is.
Speaker B:You know, and that's kind of a.
Speaker B:You know, what do we do with that?
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:What does it mean that he is true?
Speaker B:You know, that he's the vine that's always supposed to be.
Speaker B:So, Brian, is it true in the.
Speaker A:Sense of legitimate, you think, or is it true in the sense of what was the other way I was going to say that what Israel was supposed to be, now I am fulfilling that.
Speaker A:Is that kind of what you're getting across?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's kind of.
Speaker B:As we kind of unpack this, I see this as they were a vineyard for a time.
Speaker B:They were supposed to be a vine for a time.
Speaker B:And that when Jesus is coming, he's the vine above all vines, the real.
Speaker B:The real vine.
Speaker B:Like, they had been given.
Speaker B:Again, we see this a lot in the Old Testament.
Speaker B:They'd been given a task that they failed at.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:And the true vine as.
Speaker B:Again, as we'll unpack this.
Speaker B:And what the true vine does, the true vine does something very differently than the vine that is Israel and so forth.
Speaker B:So, Brian, would you read like, two or.
Speaker B:I'm just gonna read two and three here and we'll go on.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:Any comments or questions up to this point?
Speaker A:Well, I have a couple, but let's go ahead, and I'll probably have more later.
Speaker B:So he verse two here, he cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit.
Speaker B:Well, every branch that does bear fruit, he prunes, so it'll be even more fruitful.
Speaker B:You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.
Speaker B:Now there's something kind of funny.
Speaker B:I don't know if I say it's funny.
Speaker B:It's not like, funny as in, like, something's off here, but in the Greek, there's a Little bit of wordplay that's happening.
Speaker B:There's a little bit of wordplay that's happening here.
Speaker B:So the words cut off and prune.
Speaker B:Okay, so the word prune here is kathyro.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:And it's very.
Speaker B:It's a term that's used pretty consistently with viticulture, with vine culture.
Speaker B:Like, it's a very clear.
Speaker B:It's a very clear term.
Speaker B:This is about a vine, but then cuts off.
Speaker B:It's a little bit different.
Speaker B:It's a little bit.
Speaker B:This is where the weirdness.
Speaker B:And you know, a lot of.
Speaker B:There's commentaries that look at this differently because the word is iro.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And if you listen to it, you can hear maybe the similarities.
Speaker B:Kithyro and Iroh.
Speaker B:Kithyro.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And the kath is kind of a prefix on it, right?
Speaker B:Yes, yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So there's a prefix.
Speaker B:So it seems like the limma or the root is the same, but there's a prefix on the prune.
Speaker B:But, but what's interesting about that is that's not a word that's typically used with viticulture.
Speaker B:It usually means lift up to lift up.
Speaker B:And so there's been a lot of debate about, well, what does this exactly mean or why was it said this way instead of cut off?
Speaker B:And we can tell by the structure of the sentence and so forth.
Speaker B:It's supposed to be.
Speaker B:It's an opposite.
Speaker B:You know, there's some juxtaposition between prune and cut off and carry away.
Speaker B:Like there's some juxtaposition, but the words are similar and the IROH is different.
Speaker B:And so it's kind of going, okay, what's he trying to.
Speaker B:What's trying to be shown here by using these similar words?
Speaker B:And so some have said, like he's trying to point out.
Speaker B:And you know, right before this we see Judas has left.
Speaker B:You know, he was part of the EPIM that IRO and Kithairo look similar, but they have very different outcomes.
Speaker B:So there's been some thought of, like, it's pointing out this juxtaposition like Judas was a disciple, just like these other disciples, but they looked similar, but one is cut off and one is pruned to be more fruitful and so forth.
Speaker B:But there's also a thought as we go on to go, you are already clean because of the word I've spoken to you.
Speaker B:And the word clean is Kathy Ross.
Speaker A:Okay, okay.
Speaker A:So it's related to that word kathyros.
Speaker B:So, yeah, there's some.
Speaker B:Yes, so there's some Thought that all of it's pointing towards this idea that you are already clean.
Speaker B:Kathyros.
Speaker B:And so when we get to the word clean and this again I'm using logos.
Speaker B:We've talked about this a little bit.
Speaker B:I start looking at this word and where it's used elsewhere.
Speaker B:It's used in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament and it's used in connection with being ceremonially clean, like you can come to the temple.
Speaker B:Okay, so we have this really interesting thing going on here that you are already ceremonially clean.
Speaker B:You're cleansed, Kathyros, because of the word I have spoken to you.
Speaker B:And typically that's done with water.
Speaker B:And you've done a little bit of work kind of talking about the water function here, is that correct?
Speaker A:Yeah, well John in general talks about cleaning quite a bit.
Speaker A:I was just looking just back in the couple of chapters before this, in chapter 13, you might remember Jesus washes the disciples feet.
Speaker A:That's a very famous passage and we think about a lot.
Speaker A:It's only in John that we have that.
Speaker A:But then the interesting thing with that is what Peter says.
Speaker A:He's like, oh Lord, you're never going to wash my feet.
Speaker A:And Jesus Peter, if I don't wash your feet, you have no part in me.
Speaker A:And then Peter of course being Peter overreacts and goes, well then wash all of me, give me a bath, basically my head and my hands and my feet.
Speaker A:And Jesus there says basically if you've already had a bath, only your feet need to be cleaned.
Speaker A:And there's that kind of an idea.
Speaker A:But even all the way back in chapter four, well, in chapter two as well, well even chapter one, the disciples of John the Baptist, it talks about that there were debates about cleaning, about this ceremonial cleaning.
Speaker A:Chapter two, you have the six stone water jars in the wedding feast of Cana that Jesus turns into wine, that it says that they're used for ceremonial cleaning.
Speaker A:The woman at the well, the description of the pitcher that she has there for water is the kind of, it's a word that's used in connection with this.
Speaker A:So anyway, my point is that there's a lot of, I call it the cleaning theme in the Gospel of John.
Speaker A:There's a lot of language about this and you know, it's worth thinking about what, what John is doing when he, when he talks about that, that theme.
Speaker A:So that was the only thing I, I've done a little bit of work.
Speaker B:On and I'm gonna, I'm gonna rewind.
Speaker B:It's Katharos Not Kathyros, for that's what I was thinking.
Speaker A:There's no I in there.
Speaker A:Yeah, so I was actually looking that up.
Speaker B:My apologies.
Speaker B:My apologies.
Speaker A:No, you're doing great.
Speaker A:You're doing great.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So we get through this.
Speaker B:And so what's different here again is like the clean usually is a water.
Speaker B:You know, the way that this word is used is usually associated with water and being ceremonially clean in the Old Testament.
Speaker B:And now Jesus said, the word I have spoken to you is what has been clean.
Speaker B:So again, so we see kind of this inversion of the system that has been put in place that coming to that, the words of Jesus.
Speaker B:And we'll talk more about that.
Speaker B:The words of Jesus and being near Jesus, it makes them able to come to the Father.
Speaker B:And it's no longer the washing, the cleansing there.
Speaker B:Okay, so going on to verse four.
Speaker B:Brian, why don't you just do verse four for us?
Speaker B:Because we'll kind of get into this important part here, Right?
Speaker A:Remain in me as I also remain in you.
Speaker A:No branch can bear fruit by itself.
Speaker A:It must remain in the vine.
Speaker A:Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so this is a really important part of this whole pericope between beginning of 15, about the word mino or remain.
Speaker B:And Brian, you've talked about this, that this is such an important idea for John, right?
Speaker A:John.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:40 times.
Speaker A:I think we have this word more in the Gospel of John.
Speaker A:Very, very important word.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And through verse 17, this word is said 11 times.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:In this passage.
Speaker B:In this passage, it's used frequently.
Speaker A:More frequently in the Gospel of John.
Speaker A:But you're saying in this little section, it's even used more frequently than it.
Speaker B:Is a hot topic right here in this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's like if you had to hone it in.
Speaker B:Like this is a heat map.
Speaker B:There's a heat map kind of on here.
Speaker B:And so the word mino has kind of.
Speaker B:You've probably heard it a lot of different ways.
Speaker B:Remain.
Speaker B:Some translations say abide in me.
Speaker B:You know, there's a lot of.
Speaker B:It's kind of as you would say, the semantic range here is remain, stay, remain last, persist, wait for await.
Speaker B:So there's this idea of remaining.
Speaker B:Now, as we get into this, that first, remain in me is an imperative.
Speaker B:It's a command.
Speaker A:Command.
Speaker B:Like this isn't.
Speaker B:You know, I think sometimes we hear the word remain, and it means, well, I just don't move, you know, but like, there's this idea that Jesus, it's a command you are to do something.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So it's not just.
Speaker A:You're saying, it's not just passively.
Speaker B:It's not a passive.
Speaker B:This is an imperative.
Speaker A:This isn't hanging out.
Speaker A:Hanging out.
Speaker B:This isn't hanging out.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:This isn't just like, hey, man, I didn't move.
Speaker B:You told me just to wait and abide in you.
Speaker B:Jesus is saying, remain in me, and I also remain in you.
Speaker B:And we get back to this viticulture piece again.
Speaker B:No branch can bear fruit by itself.
Speaker B:It must remain in the vine.
Speaker B:So I think this goes back a little bit to Isaiah when it talks about that they bore bad fruit.
Speaker B:It was because they were not faithful.
Speaker B:They weren't remaining.
Speaker B:They weren't following the law.
Speaker B:They weren't staying with God.
Speaker B:And so as they wandered from God, their fruit became bad.
Speaker B:And so outside of being connected to God, there's no good fruit.
Speaker B:The branch cannot bear fruit.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And neither can you.
Speaker B:And this is the disciples.
Speaker B:Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
Speaker B:Remember, this is an imperative.
Speaker B:Unless you.
Speaker B:Beginning verse four, it's an imperative.
Speaker B:It's not an imperative here, but it's.
Speaker B:Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
Speaker A:It's interesting, I hadn't thought of this before, and I'll see what you think about this.
Speaker A:So I talk about metaphor, the vine.
Speaker A:And here the metaphor is bearing fruit.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So you said, oh, that's the image.
Speaker A:Here's the branch.
Speaker A:The vine is bearing fruit.
Speaker A:But then it's interesting.
Speaker A:He shifts to you, he starts talking to the disciples.
Speaker A:But he still talks about bearing fruit.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That doesn't change.
Speaker A:That metaphor stays the same, even though he's changed.
Speaker A:How I say is the point from the branch needs to remain in the vine in order to bear fruit.
Speaker A:To you must remain in me.
Speaker A:That kind of an idea.
Speaker A:I never noticed that before.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They're becoming the branches that bear the fruit then.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I guess the question.
Speaker A:And you don't have to answer this right now.
Speaker A:You may be heading up to this.
Speaker A:So one question I have is, what is it to bear fruit, then?
Speaker A:What do you think?
Speaker A:Is Jesus primarily focused on when he says bearing fruit?
Speaker B:Yeah, well, we'll get to that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, so we'll get to that.
Speaker B:And that's one of the things that this kind of unfolds here.
Speaker B:Like, we haven't gotten the idea of, like, what is good fruit.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:We know what bad fruit is.
Speaker B:Like, that Isaiah passage kind of illuminates what bad fruit is.
Speaker B:But we haven't.
Speaker B:We're Just talking about bearing fruit at this point.
Speaker B:Okay, we know that Jesus is the true vine and we're talking about bearing fruit, but we haven't gotten to the context of what is bearing fruit.
Speaker B:You know, what is good fruit.
Speaker A:I'll just remain then and wait.
Speaker B:Actively listening.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So picking up verse five.
Speaker B:And we get this emphasis again, we get this re emphasizing what's going on.
Speaker B:I am the vine, you are the branches.
Speaker B:Okay, so again, we already had verse one.
Speaker B:I am the true vine.
Speaker B:And now Jesus is saying to them, I am the vine, you are the branches.
Speaker B:You, all the disciples, you are the branches.
Speaker B:Now this is where it gets interesting.
Speaker B:If you remain in me, and I in you.
Speaker B:Okay, so I think this can kind of get people hung up a little bit here.
Speaker B:If you remain in me.
Speaker B:So that's what we call a subjunctive in the Greek.
Speaker B:It's an uncertain future if you remain in me.
Speaker B:Like Jesus is saying, like, you're going to remain in me.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker B:If you remain in me.
Speaker B:But then we get into this idea.
Speaker B:And I in you.
Speaker B:That and I in you is not subjunctive.
Speaker A:Ooh, interesting.
Speaker B:Okay, so if you remain in me, that's a subjunctive.
Speaker B:And I in you is not in the.
Speaker B:Is not a subjunctive.
Speaker B:So one part is not a verified future.
Speaker B:The other one is a guarant, is a reality.
Speaker A:Okay, so this is kind of what we talk about sometimes.
Speaker A:Like, we can count on.
Speaker A:On him, but we're the.
Speaker A:We're the ones that are the.
Speaker A:The questionable in the.
Speaker A:We are in the transition relationship.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:So, so, but, but I guess I get what you're saying.
Speaker A:You're saying that.
Speaker A:That there is no uncertainty in.
Speaker A:In his ability to keep us.
Speaker A:It is the question of if we will remain in him that is questionable.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And you will bear much fruit apart from me.
Speaker B:You can do nothing.
Speaker B:Again, we get this idea again, like, this is re.
Speaker B:Emphasizing what we just read in verse four.
Speaker B:Like, it's just building onto this Again, and as you kind of pointed out, we're getting that the disciples are the branches here.
Speaker B:You know, Jesus is divine.
Speaker B:And again, we get another subjunctive here.
Speaker B:And six, if you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers.
Speaker B:So this is such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Speaker A:Okay, so this is kind of the opposite.
Speaker A:So if you remain in me, here's what happens.
Speaker A:If you don't remain in me, here's the result.
Speaker B:Yeah, and if you look back up to verse two, he cuts off every branch of me that bears no fruit.
Speaker B:We're getting a clarification of this in verse 6.
Speaker B:If you do not remain to me, you are like that branch that is taken up.
Speaker B:You're thrown away and withers, and such branches are picked up and thrown into the fire and burned.
Speaker B:Okay, so this is not, you know, this is.
Speaker B:I mean, this is.
Speaker B:If you do not.
Speaker B:Now, then we get the inverse of this.
Speaker B:If you remain in me, again, we get this, and my words remain in you.
Speaker B:Ask whatever you wish and it will be done for you.
Speaker B:Okay, so this is kind of.
Speaker A:Boy, I got some questions here.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was new.
Speaker B:You asked those questions.
Speaker B:Fire for me.
Speaker A:Well, so, you know, people look at this and say, there are things I've asked God for.
Speaker A:And even it's interesting.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:This isn't.
Speaker A:This is a.
Speaker A:You know, sometimes he'll say, ask for what?
Speaker A:Whatever you need.
Speaker A:But here's whatever you wish and it'll be done for you.
Speaker A:You know, Kind of sounds like the genie in Aladdin, you know, Is that the idea or what's going on with that, do you think?
Speaker B:Yes, exactly.
Speaker B:I'm just kidding.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:I've been doing this stuff wrong.
Speaker B:Yeah, you wrong, boy.
Speaker B:I've got a couple churches for you to check out.
Speaker B:No, so this is, you know, this is an interesting verse, and this is one, I think, that catches people sometimes.
Speaker B:Again, we always talk about context, text.
Speaker B:What's going on here?
Speaker A:Well, yeah, he's talking about remaining and.
Speaker A:And bearing fruit and.
Speaker A:And, you know, being connected to the vine.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so, you know, when we get into this, I think one of the commentators I was looking at said like, you know, there's oftentimes sometimes this has been looked at as like a blank check, you know, like a blank, you know, ask whatever you wish and it will be done.
Speaker A:Three wishes and.
Speaker A:And that's no more.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so, you know, it's one of those things that kind of put this in the context of remaining in Jesus.
Speaker B:And what was Jesus doing?
Speaker B:What was the work of what Jesus was doing?
Speaker B:And again, it kind of reveals itself a little bit more just as we go through this, but it's about, you know, what does it mean to bear fruit for God?
Speaker B:What does it mean to bear fruit his kingdom?
Speaker B:And so it's not about ask whatever you wish in regards to bearing fruit for him, not just ask whatever you wish.
Speaker B:And so it's kind of in that.
Speaker B:Yes, this is the importance, I think.
Speaker B:Of not just reading a verse, but reading this whole thing together.
Speaker B:What are you thinking?
Speaker A:It just occurred to me.
Speaker A:It's almost like if we are remaining in him, we are going to wish for the things that are in keeping with.
Speaker A:It's almost like it's reciprocal in the sense that it's almost a sign of our remaining in him, if we wish for those things that are connected with bearing fruit.
Speaker A:You understand what I'm saying?
Speaker A:So it's almost like when we're not connected to him is when we're going to be wishing for this or that or a million dollars or whatever.
Speaker B:I think it's really, you reign to me, and my words remain in you.
Speaker B:What are the words of Jesus that these disciples have heard up to this point?
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:It is about sacrifice.
Speaker B:It is about giving up of oneself.
Speaker A:Being a servant, even that night, you know, do.
Speaker A:Do for me as I do for one another, as I've done for you when he.
Speaker A:When they wash their feet, you know.
Speaker B:And so a blank check just for your own personal aggrandizement would not be a reflection of the words of Christ that.
Speaker B:That the disciples have heard at this point.
Speaker A:Well, darn.
Speaker A:Okay, well, no, I get it.
Speaker A:I get it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, this is kind of a.
Speaker B:It's not a tricky one, but I remember as a kid reading this sometimes where you're just like, ask whatever.
Speaker B:You know, ask whatever.
Speaker B:And, you know, when you look at this in this context, you're like, what does it mean that my words remain in you?
Speaker B:Like, this is not.
Speaker B:And you have to think, you know, there's.
Speaker B:Jesus is.
Speaker B:You know, the guys are tuned in at this point.
Speaker B:The disciples are honed in.
Speaker B:Jesus is giving this long address to them what's going on here.
Speaker B:And so I think it's important to say, like, if you remain in me, ask whatever you wish and it will be done for you.
Speaker B:If you remain in me and my words remain in you, you know that there's a.
Speaker B:And I'm not saying that the words remaining in them is separate than remaining in him, but that they kind of go together.
Speaker B:So we have this Mino word.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:You remember the things that I have taught you.
Speaker A:You're, you know, holding on to those is.
Speaker A:Yeah, you're.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:Yeah, living in a way that's in.
Speaker A:In keeping with them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I think even as you think about this, it's not just Jesus's words.
Speaker B:Jesus didn't just say to live a certain way.
Speaker B:Jesus said the words and then lived a certain Way.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, like his.
Speaker B:His whole life pointed towards this.
Speaker B:And we'll, we'll.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker A:I mean, thinking earlier in John where he says, I've only said to you what I've heard from my Father.
Speaker A:You know, it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm just telling you what, what is coming from God.
Speaker A:You know, this is, this is what you're.
Speaker A:You're hearing, so.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:All right, so.
Speaker B:And I'll go on to.
Speaker B:Any other comments or questions, Brian?
Speaker A:No, not.
Speaker A:Not right now, I don't think, other than the ones I've already asked, but I love it.
Speaker B:And this is to my Father's glory that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
Speaker B:Again, we have this clarification here, like, what is it?
Speaker B:You know, what brings glory to the Father?
Speaker B:You know, and I think that's where you get back again, that.
Speaker B:Ask whatever you wish and it will be done for you.
Speaker B:We're getting back to.
Speaker B:It's about the glory of the Father.
Speaker B:Glory of the Father.
Speaker B:And this is what he wants.
Speaker B:So again, as we think about Jesus taking on kind of the mantle of Israel that only bore bad fruit, he's saying, be connected to me.
Speaker B:And what God has always wanted in this vineyard.
Speaker B:In this vineyard mindset is to bear fruit.
Speaker B:To bear.
Speaker B:Not just bear fruit.
Speaker B:Bear much fruit.
Speaker A:Bear much fruit.
Speaker B:And to be his disciples to follow after him.
Speaker B:So we get this.
Speaker B:We're starting to get a clearer picture here of where we're going.
Speaker B:And this isn't just Jesus saying this.
Speaker B:This is the Father saying this, as you pointed out to us just a second ago.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:So, Brian, why don't you read for us?
Speaker B:Why don't you read for us?
Speaker B:9 and 10.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you.
Speaker A:Now remain in my love.
Speaker A:If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.
Speaker B:Okay, the word remain remains.
Speaker B:Again, we get this.
Speaker B:The Greek word mino just keeps coming out, as the Father has loved me, so I have loved you.
Speaker A:And I'll go ahead.
Speaker A:I just highlight this.
Speaker A:We've talked about this a lot.
Speaker A:But when people talk about.
Speaker A:Well, how do you study the Bible?
Speaker A:How do you get this meaning out of it?
Speaker A:One of the things we always say is look for those repeated words.
Speaker A:And this is one of those examples when you're reading this, you can't miss.
Speaker A:If you read it carefully, you can't miss this repetition of the word remain, and you immediately should.
Speaker A:Okay, this is key.
Speaker A:I need to understand what this is saying here in this passage.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And again, I think this is one of the things, but it's really important is Jesus is saying to remain in me while Jesus knows he is leaving to go to the cross.
Speaker B:Okay, yeah, like, so we get this again, like, so this is going to be coming.
Speaker A:It's not going to be physical presence in that sense.
Speaker B:I think, you know, we think about a little bit of cognitive dissonance here is kind of going, Jesus saying, remain in me, remain in my love.
Speaker B:Remain with me.
Speaker B:All the while he's preparing them, I'm leaving.
Speaker A:And he's already said, I'm going away.
Speaker A:And where I'm going, you cannot come.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:In chapter four.
Speaker B:And then he's saying, remain in me.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So you kind of go like, okay, there's something going on here that he's trying to get them to understand.
Speaker B:So as the Father has loved me, so I have loved you.
Speaker B:Bryan, as you pointed out, that Jesus is just doing what the Father has done and that Jesus is loving in the way that the Father loves.
Speaker B:Like, there's a mirror here now, because you have seen how the Father loves through me.
Speaker B:Jesus says, now minnow in my love, remain.
Speaker B:And it's imperative it's command, remain in my love.
Speaker B:And we're going to get to the command here.
Speaker B:So then verse 10, subjunctive, if you keep my commands.
Speaker B:Okay, so if you keep my commands, this isn't just like, again, this is part of the command.
Speaker B:I mean, we're getting into this.
Speaker B:But if you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I've kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.
Speaker B:So we get this idea that following the commands of Jesus will help us remain in his love.
Speaker B:And Jesus is the example for this because as the Father has commanded, Jesus has been obedient.
Speaker A:He's done the things that.
Speaker B:Yeah, and it's going to become.
Speaker A:To do.
Speaker B:Yeah, and this is going to become into sharper focus as Jesus is on the cross and we, you know, it's a sacrificial love.
Speaker B:You know, we're getting into this.
Speaker B:And so this is, this is what we're called to.
Speaker B:This isn't the, this isn't just sitting, you know, it's putting oneself out there with the, you know, potential cost of this.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So, and then verse 11, I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.
Speaker B:Now, again, this is a weird thing for me when I was doing this study is that Jesus is joyful, knowing he's going to a cross, okay.
Speaker B:And that.
Speaker B:And that his joy is, you know, we get this idea that the joy comes from obedience, you know, And I think this is such a.
Speaker B:You know, we always talk about, so what that we think of joy as sometimes circumstance or something like that.
Speaker B:But Jesus joy comes from doing the Father's will.
Speaker B:And that Jesus joy will be in the disciples being obedient as well.
Speaker A:We sometimes almost get the opposite.
Speaker A:I'm talking culturally now, I'm not talking within Christianity, but culturally, we almost get this opposite idea to be.
Speaker A:I'm going to use the word happy because we've talked before about the difference between happiness and joy.
Speaker A:But to be happy, I need to be left to do what I want to do, right?
Speaker A:I need to have the freedom to basically do whatever I feel like that's what will bring me, quote, unquote, joy.
Speaker A:And here, like you said, it's in offering up oneself, it's in being obedient to another's will, to the Father's will.
Speaker A:Here is what brings joy.
Speaker B:So verse 12, here my command is this.
Speaker B:Love each other as I have loved you.
Speaker B:And then 13.
Speaker B:And this is really where we get it.
Speaker B:Greater love has no one than this to lay down one's life for one's friends.
Speaker B:So for us, we're looking at it retrospectively.
Speaker B:But for Jesus, saying this is foreshadowing what is to come for the disciples, that it is, he's showing them this is what love looks like.
Speaker B:Sacrificial love is the greatest love.
Speaker B:And that you're going to see this, you know, Jesus hadn't done that to this point, but it's going to come into sharp focus here.
Speaker B:Okay, Any thoughts on that?
Speaker A:No, not on that specifically.
Speaker A:On.
Speaker A:I do still have a couple of questions for you, but.
Speaker A:Okay, well, we'll get it there.
Speaker B:We'll get it.
Speaker B:This is not usually my role I'm in.
Speaker B:Okay, just.
Speaker B:I'm sweating it.
Speaker B:I'm sweating over here.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So you do a great job.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You are my friends if you do what I command.
Speaker B:And that's verse 14, verse 15.
Speaker B:I no longer call you servants because a servant does not know his master's business.
Speaker B:Instead, I call you friends.
Speaker B:For everything that I learned from my Father, I have made known to you.
Speaker B:You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that whatever you ask in my name, the Father will give you.
Speaker B:So, and this is probably one of the.
Speaker B:There's a couple points here I want to point out is this was probably the most interesting, not the most interesting, it was all interesting to me.
Speaker B:But this idea of friend here, you know, we get this idea of friend and in, in my studies, looking at this, that there's this idea in Greco Roman world, this idea of a patron and a client.
Speaker B:And that friendship in this time typically was reserved for those who were of equal status, you know, that like if I'm, I don't know, a senator to a senator, a Caesar to a Caesar, you know, like that you could be friends then because you're of equal status.
Speaker B:And that was usually the term of friendship.
Speaker B:You know, we use that term, I think pretty loose these days.
Speaker B:I'm friends with people on Facebook though I haven't talked to them.
Speaker B:And you know, some of them I haven't talked to in a decade.
Speaker B:Now I know them, they're an acquaintance for me.
Speaker B:But you know, you say there's a.
Speaker A:Deeper connection, there's a deeper connection here, okay?
Speaker B:And so what we see here is I no longer call you servants because a servant does not know his master's business.
Speaker A:So that would be kind of an.
Speaker B:Unequal, it's an unequal thing here.
Speaker B:So we don't get the idea that the disciples, as they remain in Jesus love get elevated to the same status level of Jesus.
Speaker B:I mean, that's not what's happening here.
Speaker B:But he's saying now you know the master's business.
Speaker B:So it's, you know, and now he's saying like, I've called you friends for everything I learned from my Father, I've made known to you.
Speaker B:So the relationship is now about knowledge.
Speaker B:It's not necessarily about, it's not an equal status thing.
Speaker B:And the reason I bring this up is in the Greco Roman time there's this patronage relationships and basically it was designed for those who were of higher status to have a relationship with low, those of lower status.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker B:And the lower status individual would work on behalf of the higher status individual.
Speaker B:But then what the higher status individual did was, is they brought the lower status people along and there were benefits from being in their orbit.
Speaker B:Okay, so it was.
Speaker B:And so I think what we're seeing here is we're seeing this concept of the disciples are as they work on behalf of the Father through the Son, you know, through Jesus.
Speaker B:And obviously the work of the Father that there are benefits, you know, that they know the Father's workings because they're in this kind of patron relationship.
Speaker B:It doesn't mean that they are not elegant to the level of Jesus.
Speaker B:Obviously, we're not equals with him, but that in that relationship, there are benefits that are bestowed upon those are.
Speaker B:In that relationship.
Speaker A:And there are expectations that go along with that relationship as well.
Speaker B:And there are expectations.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, you know, if those of the lower class are not working on behalf of the person in the upper class, that relationship does not exist.
Speaker B:You know, they're not going to get.
Speaker A:I'm going to tell you, the image that came to my mind was in the very beginning of the first Godfather film.
Speaker A:Do you remember when the guy goes in and says.
Speaker A:You know, he says, on this day of your.
Speaker A:He's practicing on the day of your daughter's wedding, you know, bestow this gift.
Speaker A:And he's like, there may come a time, it may not come when I will need you to do a favor for me.
Speaker A:It's that kind of.
Speaker A:It just gives me that image kind of.
Speaker A:I don't know if it's quite like that.
Speaker B:There's just.
Speaker B:Yeah, we read Friend, and I think sometimes we think of Pat.
Speaker B:But I think what we see here is, again, we live in a very different culture, but in that cultural context, the concept of friend and knowing the master's business and so forth, I think what we're getting is this image of this patronage relationship that happens in this early time, that as we work on behalf of.
Speaker B:Of Christ and God the Father, that they bestow benefits upon those who remain.
Speaker A:Right, okay.
Speaker B:Does that make sense?
Speaker A:It does, yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And then we'll kind of wrap this up here, at least for my part, and you can ask me questions I don't know the answer to.
Speaker B:You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit.
Speaker B:Fruit that will last so that whatever you ask in my name, the Father will give you.
Speaker B:So the last one of the commentators brought this up, and I thought, this is a really interesting idea, because, again, Israel has been in the background of this whole conversation.
Speaker B:Vineyard.
Speaker B:You know, there's always been this idea, but thinking about the nation of Israel in this context, they were chosen.
Speaker B:The nation of Israel was chosen.
Speaker A:Chosen.
Speaker B:They're appointed to do a task, and they bore fruit.
Speaker B:But it was bad fruit.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And so now we have Jesus, who is with the disciples, who he has chosen.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:12 of them.
Speaker B:12 of them.
Speaker A:Hint, hint.
Speaker B:Well, 11.
Speaker B:11.
Speaker B:Now Judas is getting ready to hang around somewhere else.
Speaker A:He chose 12 to represent the tribe.
Speaker B:The 12.
Speaker B:But he's 12 disciples.
Speaker B:11 at this time.
Speaker B:But that will.
Speaker B:That he's Appointed to a task, he's telling them, do this and to go out and bear fruit.
Speaker B:Okay, so we get this.
Speaker B:And now.
Speaker B:And I think this is.
Speaker B:And we see.
Speaker B:And it's to go and bear fruit.
Speaker B:Fruit that will last.
Speaker B:Now, what's interesting here, the word last here is mano.
Speaker A:Oh, fruit that will remain, then, or.
Speaker B:Fruit that will remain.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So what.
Speaker B:So what remains at this point?
Speaker B:So Jesus is commanding his disciples.
Speaker B:Who are those that he is called?
Speaker B:The ones that remain or those who are remaining at this point?
Speaker A:Well, the disciples, Those who remain in me.
Speaker A:Yeah, those are truly my friends.
Speaker A:They're truly my disciples.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker B:So I think what is being said here is that fruit that will last is.
Speaker B:He's telling the disciples, go out and make disciples.
Speaker A:Okay, Disciples who make disciples kind of thing.
Speaker B:Fruit that will minnow.
Speaker B:So a fruit that will minnow is a disciple.
Speaker B:You know, just as they are minnowing, their job is to go out and minnow.
Speaker B:And so that lead, that means living like Jesus, you know, that means like.
Speaker B:And so, like.
Speaker B:And that's what a disciple is, someone who lives like him.
Speaker B:And then we get into this.
Speaker B:And then we get into this kind of whatever you ask or whatever.
Speaker B:You know, we said the will thing that we've talked about earlier, and so that whatever you ask in the name the Father will give you.
Speaker B:Okay, so again, I think we're kind of getting a little clarification on verse seven where it says, ask whatever you wish and it will be done for you.
Speaker B:I think we're getting a little clarification here.
Speaker B:It's about discipleship.
Speaker B:Like, ask the Father for help in developing the fruit that will.
Speaker B:In developing disciples, and the Father will give to you, which I think is, you know, we get that with the Spirit.
Speaker B:But I think there's still, you know, as we.
Speaker B:We continue on, there's more of that.
Speaker B:And then we.
Speaker B:We close out here in 17.
Speaker B:This is my command.
Speaker B:Love each other.
Speaker B:Okay, so again.
Speaker B:And greater love has no man than this than lay down his life for his friends.
Speaker B:And so we're.
Speaker B:Again, we're getting this.
Speaker B:It's about love.
Speaker B:It's about following the words of Jesus.
Speaker B:And then as we do these things, we are remaining, we're abiding in Christ.
Speaker B:And that the benefits of, you know, we know from the Father what's happening.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So here's a couple things.
Speaker A:Couple questions I have.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:First, let me say I noticed this.
Speaker A:Let me say two.
Speaker A:There's two things I've noticed.
Speaker A:First.
Speaker A:First thing I've noticed is because I always think just remaining in me.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That's the part we focus on.
Speaker A:But yeah, then you pointed out, well, it's not just remaining in Jesus, it's remaining in his words and then remaining in his love.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There's those.
Speaker A:They're kind of three.
Speaker A:They're related, but they're kind of distinct commands in a way.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:To remain in me, remain in my words, remain in my love.
Speaker A:And I guess my question is, what does it look like to remain?
Speaker A:What does that mean?
Speaker A:You said it's active.
Speaker A:You said it's something that we do.
Speaker A:Can you give us any further just specifics about what that would be for us to be disciples?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think from this passage it's hard to kind of to parse out much beyond what it says here.
Speaker B:But I think to remain in him, it is to follow the example of Jesus in sacrificial love, it is to be obedient.
Speaker B:I mean, I think we see that pretty clearly here.
Speaker B:Obedience is a key part of remaining in him.
Speaker B:Like obedience.
Speaker A:If obeyed the Father, then yeah, you.
Speaker B:Know, so I think it's.
Speaker B:It's love.
Speaker B:I think it's all those things you said.
Speaker B:It's love, it's obedience.
Speaker B:It is reliance on.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it's a reliance on understanding that any fruit that is born out of me only comes from being attached to the true vine.
Speaker A:And so bearing fruit.
Speaker A:You're saying, if I heard you correctly, you're saying it is essentially making other disciples.
Speaker A:It is fruit that will remain.
Speaker A:It's a reciprocal kind of thing.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, I think it's, you know, especially as we think back to Israel, like the nation of Israel, we've talked about this before, wasn't just supposed to be there for themselves, only self serving.
Speaker B:It was supposed to be ambassadors for God in the world.
Speaker B:You know, that they were supposed to be.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:They were to draw others.
Speaker A:To.
Speaker B:To draw others.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I think especially with that imagery at the beginning, it's about drawing others.
Speaker B:Like that is good fruit is drawing others to life here, you know, that we see from God the Father and Jesus here.
Speaker A:So this is just an observation then.
Speaker A:I had never connected it this closely.
Speaker A:So I'll give you another example later in chapter 20.
Speaker A:When Jesus breathes on the disciples.
Speaker A:We often call that the Johannine Pentecost.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:He says, receive the Holy Spirit.
Speaker A:John does not give us the story of Acts 2, but it's a bestowing of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker A:This, I've never connected this closely to something.
Speaker A:Again, this would be after Jesus resurrection in Matthew, but the Great Commission.
Speaker A:And here's the part of it I was thinking about.
Speaker A:So it's a parallel kind of teaching, right?
Speaker A:He's saying, go and make disciples.
Speaker A:That's what you're saying.
Speaker A:Bear fruit is to make disciples.
Speaker A:But then it's interesting that he says in Matthew 28, and I will be with you.
Speaker A:So it's this idea.
Speaker A:If you remain in me, if you bear fruit, then I will also be with you.
Speaker A:I will also remain in you.
Speaker A:So I never noticed that parallel before, but as you were walking through that, that made me think about that.
Speaker A:So just an observation on that.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, good.
Speaker A:Good stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah, I like it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think for me, and I've always.
Speaker B:The concept of remaining or abiding has always.
Speaker B:At least for me, as I've worked through this passage myself, always felt like, well, what am I supposed to do with it?
Speaker B:What does that mean?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, it always seemed like a.
Speaker B:A passive action.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, it was just like, I just need to just stay focused on him.
Speaker B:Which is true.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, I'm not.
Speaker B:I'm not a dying thing.
Speaker B:It's not a bad thing, you know?
Speaker B:But I think that there's something working through.
Speaker B:Working through this to see, you know, if you keep my commands, you will minnow in my love, just as I have kept my.
Speaker B:You will remain.
Speaker A:Let me ask you one more question.
Speaker A:And I'd forgotten this.
Speaker A:This occurred to me about halfway through.
Speaker A:So you started out with this farewell discourse from Moses.
Speaker A:And you said, I hold before you words of life and death.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Kind of.
Speaker A:Just to summarize.
Speaker A:And here we have.
Speaker A:If you remain in me, then you'll bear fruit.
Speaker A:If you do not remain in me, then you'll be thrown away.
Speaker B:Branches are picked up, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Speaker A:So it's the same kind.
Speaker A:It's the same kind of.
Speaker A:I'm holding these words out for you, for you to hold on to.
Speaker A:And here's the way that you respond to this.
Speaker A:Whether you keep these things or not is going to determine what happens in your life.
Speaker B:And we've talked about many times that Deuteronomy is such a pivotal.
Speaker B:Such a pivotal moment in the whole rest of the Old Testament.
Speaker B:We get to Deuteronomy.
Speaker B:It sets up what happens afterwards.
Speaker B:And I think we're.
Speaker B:It's almost a similarly recapitulation of some of those things.
Speaker B:Again, if you.
Speaker B:If you follow after me, almost like.
Speaker A:The cur, the curses and the blessings and all.
Speaker A:All that in Deuteronomy?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay, good.
Speaker A:I appreciate this.
Speaker A:Ryan's been very good.
Speaker A:So if this.
Speaker A:If you've liked this, let me go ahead and wrap up.
Speaker A:Say, share it with somebody.
Speaker A:If this has been helpful for you.
Speaker A:If you think somebody.
Speaker A:Send this to somebody you think needs to remain a little bit better.
Speaker B:And have mercy on my soul.
Speaker B:I'm not a teacher.
Speaker A:You've done a great job.
Speaker A:And the other things I'll say is go visit our webpage.
Speaker A:We have some resources that are available there.
Speaker A:There's a Patreon link that you can go to there.
Speaker A:There's some other information.
Speaker A:Go back and listen to some of our other episodes if you've just now come across this one.
Speaker A:But really appreciate it, Ryan.
Speaker A:And anything else you want to say in wrapping up.
Speaker B:I don't think so.
Speaker B:Thanks, Brian.
Speaker B:Appreciate it.
Speaker B:Appreciate you letting me talk a lot.
Speaker B:Now I know how you feel.
Speaker A:It doesn't feel so great to be put on the spot all the time.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:You did a great job, though.
Speaker A:And we'll see you next week with something completely different.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:All right, bye.
