Episode 174

Zechariah 12: Stability in Times of Trouble

The discussion navigates through the complexities and theological nuances found in Zechariah, inviting listeners to engage with its rich symbolism and prophetic messages.

As they unpack Zechariah 12, the Ryan and Brian emphasize the profound implications of the text for both the ancient Israelites and contemporary readers. The metaphor of Jerusalem as a cup that sends surrounding nations reeling serves as a powerful reminder of God’s protective hand over His people. They delve into the significance of God’s sovereignty, discussing how the imagery of being besieged reflects not only historical realities but also spiritual truths that resonate with believers today. The hosts encourage listeners to consider the eschatological implications of the passage, particularly in light of the New Testament understanding of Christ as the fulfillment of these prophecies. They highlight the mourning that will occur upon recognizing the one who has been pierced, drawing parallels with the grief experienced during significant historical losses in Israel’s past, such as the lamentations for King Josiah.

The episode culminates in a discussion of the cleansing fountain mentioned in Zechariah, linking it to the New Testament themes of redemption and grace. They use the hymn 'There is a fountain filled with blood' to illustrate how these ancient prophecies have shaped Christian understanding of salvation. This connection between Zechariah and the New Testament invites a deeper reflection on how the themes of judgment and grace are intricately woven throughout scripture, encouraging listeners to contemplate the transformative power of Christ’s sacrifice.

Takeaways:

  • The podcast discusses the significance of the Book of Zechariah, especially its messianic prophecies.
  • Ryan shares his experience studying Greek and writing an exegetical paper on John 15.
  • Brian highlights the parallel themes of God's creative power and intimate knowledge of humanity.
  • The imagery of Jerusalem as an immovable rock emphasizes God's protection over His people.
  • The episode explores the themes of mourning and redemption as tied to the crucifixion of Jesus.
  • Listeners are encouraged to consider the spiritual implications of Israel's historical events.
Transcript
Ryan:

Welcome back to Ryan and Brian's Bible Bistro.

Ryan:

I'm Ryan.

Brian:

And I'm Brian.

Ryan:

And this is the Bible Bistro, a podcast all about the Bible theology and all things related to the Christian faith.

Brian:

Yeah, we've been away a little bit.

Brian:

Yeah, we've been away for a few weeks.

Brian:

I know some of our regular listeners are going through withdrawal.

Ryan:

Oh, yes, yes, I'm sure of all those things that are happening.

Ryan:

But we've been away a couple of weeks again.

Ryan:

Where have you been, Brian?

Brian:

Well, we were.

Brian:

My.

Brian:

My wife and I were able to be down at the International Conference on Missions in Lexington, Kentucky.

Brian:

Ran into some nice people and met some new people, heard some really good preaching and some good workshops.

Brian:

But then also it was kind of neat.

Brian:

I found out some people that knew about the podcast and listened to it that we weren't familiar with and had them share some good things about the podcast.

Brian:

So that was nice to hear.

Ryan:

Yeah.

Ryan:

Well, I know.

Brian:

Where have you been?

Brian:

Right.

Ryan:

I've been at this desk studying Greek and I've been writing a.

Ryan:

I've been writing a paper, an exegetical paper.

Ryan:

So I'm on the topic of John 15 and Jesus says, I am the true vine.

Brian:

We're going to talk about that later.

Brian:

I'm going to have you share some of your research after you're finished, after you've done it and you've thoroughly, thoroughly researched the topic.

Ryan:

So I've got about six days left for it to turn it in and I am looking forward to that.

Brian:

And we've mentioned that you've started a Master of Arts program at Ozark Christian College, but it's the Lincoln Christian Seminary program there.

Brian:

And you've been doing Greek as well.

Brian:

You've been flying through first year Greek in one semester and also taking.

Brian:

What's it.

Brian:

Is it hermeneutics or interpretive?

Ryan:

Biblical Hermeneutics.

Brian:

Biblical hermeneutics.

Brian:

So you're writing this paper for that.

Brian:

So.

Brian:

Yeah, it's been a good.

Brian:

It's been good.

Brian:

You've enjoyed.

Brian:

I thought it was.

Ryan:

I think it's funny that you're the one that's saying it's been good.

Brian:

I have seen it make a positive impact in your life, is what I would say.

Ryan:

It'S been.

Ryan:

It has been good, but it has been a.

Ryan:

It's been a very busy season.

Brian:

It's left very little, very little time for little other things like your work and family.

Ryan:

Yeah.

Ryan:

Little margin.

Ryan:

Or this podcast, which is the top.

Brian:

Of the list of all of which is the point.

Brian:

Yeah.

Ryan:

Yes.

Ryan:

Anyway, well, we're back.

Ryan:

We're going to continue with Zachariah here.

Brian:

Zachariah.

Brian:

I think this is our ninth podcast or on.

Brian:

Ninth episode on Zachariah.

Brian:

Ninth podcast on Zachariah.

Brian:

Yeah, but we're going to talk about chapter 12, and I'm going to just talk about the first verse of chapter 13 too, when we get to the end of it.

Ryan:

Well, it'll be good.

Ryan:

So we're.

Ryan:

Yeah, we've had quite a bit that we've gone through Zechariah here.

Ryan:

A lot's been happening.

Ryan:

What happened right before this, Brian kind of set this up for us.

Brian:

Well, we had this long back in chapter nine, verse one, you might remember, there was this prophecy.

Brian:

It talked about this prophecy concerning Israel.

Brian:

We talked about that.

Brian:

Chapter 12, verse 1.

Brian:

We're going to see a parallel to that.

Brian:

So go ahead and prepare for that.

Brian:

But then we had mostly talking about this idea and we'd mentioned that some people think that this seems a little misplaced because it's almost like Israel is going in exile again.

Brian:

Instead of being returned from exile kind of language, it's going into exile language.

Brian:

But some of it seems to be pointing toward this time in the intertestamental period when Israel was again going to go through some difficulties with.

Brian:

With the people from the North Assyrians.

Brian:

And so, you know, that's what I think is going on here has been previously.

Brian:

But the message has been.

Brian:

And one of the things we like about this is that God is able to keep his people also looking forward to the time of the Messiah, that God is going to send his king who's going to rule correctly.

Brian:

And that's what we've kind of seen coming before this.

Brian:

And we're going to continue in that kind of vein in chapter 12.

Brian:

I'll go ahead and tell you, chapters 12, 13 and 14 are really my favorite favorite parts of the Book of Zechariah, though.

Brian:

Find some clear messianic language.

Brian:

We're even going to get to talk about the Gospel of John a little bit before it's all over with.

Brian:

So it's a good day.

Ryan:

Yeah, it's always a good day when you get to talk about John.

Ryan:

That's right.

Ryan:

Yeah.

Ryan:

All right, well, you want to jump into this?

Ryan:

You want me to start reading some of this?

Brian:

Yeah, go ahead and read just chapter 12.

Brian:

Just that first.

Brian:

I don't even want you to read all of verse one.

Brian:

Just that first part of verse one that I mentioned is a parallel to chapter nine.

Brian:

And I'll read chapter nine one for.

Ryan:

You as well, a prophecy.

Ryan:

The word of the Lord concerning Israel.

Brian:

And we mentioned back in chapter nine.

Brian:

One, it's almost exactly a parallel here in chapter nine one.

Brian:

If you look at that, although the translation is a little bit different, but it's that idea of a burden or a weight you remember, like a heavy message that's coming.

Brian:

And the message there was basically that the nations surrounding Israel are going to be crushed.

Brian:

They're going to receive the weight of having tried to harm God's people.

Brian:

Similar kind of language we're going to see here, but it's the word of the Lord concerning Israel.

Brian:

It says.

Brian:

And then the last part of verse one says, the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundations of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares.

Brian:

And then we'll talk about what he declares here in just a minute.

Brian:

I just want to point out.

Brian:

I love this language here because you have this idea of God's creative power at work, his wisdom and his power at work in creation.

Brian:

This idea of laying the foundations of the earth, spreading out the heavens, as that kind of big, overarching, creative, you know, as God is creator, which talks about his power and his sovereignty.

Brian:

But then it also mentions the one who creates the spirit within a person.

Brian:

And I find that.

Brian:

That an interesting parallel between God's overall wisdom and creative power, and then his intimate creative power and wisdom when it comes to creating us.

Brian:

It reminds me, I said Psalm 139.

Brian:

I don't know if you.

Brian:

Did you get that ready or not?

Brian:

I didn't, no.

Ryan:

But I can't pull it up here.

Brian:

Okay.

Brian:

Yeah.

Brian:

Bring up Psalm 139.

Brian:

Read those first six verses.

Brian:

This reminds me of David talking about the way that God intimately knows us.

Ryan:

Yeah.

Ryan:

You have searched me, Lord, and you know me.

Ryan:

You know when I sit and when I rise.

Ryan:

You perceive my thoughts from afar.

Ryan:

You discern my going out and my lying down.

Ryan:

You are familiar with all my ways.

Brian:

Go ahead through verse six.

Ryan:

Oh, I'm sorry.

Ryan:

Before a word is on my tongue, you, Lord, know it completely.

Ryan:

You hem me in behind and before, and you lay your hand upon me.

Ryan:

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain that idea.

Brian:

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me.

Brian:

I often will use the Psalms when we're talking about God's nature.

Brian:

We see his creative power in the whole universe, but then also in knitting us together and making us in an intimate way.

Brian:

And it's also true of his knowledge.

Brian:

We see this idea of God in the Psalms has talked about sometimes almost like this overarching knowledge that he looks down and people are like ants walking around.

Brian:

It's like he has this big, vast view of all the nations and how everything is working together.

Brian:

But then here in Psalm 139, David says, you also know me.

Brian:

You know me in the inside.

Brian:

And that's what I think is what we see there in verse one.

Ryan:

Yeah.

Ryan:

So I mean, I don't know Hebrew at all.

Ryan:

You need no more of this.

Ryan:

But I mean, is there.

Ryan:

I mean, to Genesis going on here and like imago DEI with the human spirit, like, who forms the human spirit?

Ryan:

Is this.

Brian:

I think it's called back to.

Brian:

I think it's parallel.

Brian:

I think it's parallel that.

Brian:

This idea that he breathes the breath of life.

Brian:

You know, obviously he is the one who gives us life.

Brian:

He's the one who.

Brian:

Who gives us that.

Brian:

But then also, I guess just this idea of the creative, that he made us uniquely, we're in his image, but we are unique creatures.

Brian:

And so he makes us in that way as well was the other thing I just wanted to point out.

Brian:

So it says, the Lord who made me this way, then says this.

Brian:

And this is what he says.

Brian:

I'll go ahead and read verses.

Brian:

Just verse two, probably.

Brian:

I'm going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding people reeling.

Brian:

Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem.

Brian:

So I'll start with the last part, this idea of besieged.

Brian:

We have this image of Jerusalem.

Brian:

Of course, Jerusalem is where Zechariah is writing to.

Brian:

That's where he's ministering.

Brian:

But it's interesting because he talks about Jerusalem being besieged.

Brian:

So the images of an army surrounding them.

Brian:

But at this time, you gotta remember, Jerusalem didn't have great walls.

Brian:

It wasn't a huge.

Brian:

The people had returned, they'd begun rebuilding the temple.

Brian:

But it wasn't yet what we picture Jerusalem as often either in the earlier time of David and then King Solomon, or even in a later period of time, Jerusalem during the time that Zechariah is writing.

Brian:

So he's almost gotta be kind of looking forward in a prophetic way toward this image of the siege laid around Jerusalem.

Brian:

But the idea that they're surrounded.

Brian:

Boy, excuse me.

Ryan:

And this is not the first time.

Ryan:

This would also call back to.

Ryan:

They've been surrounded before, been besieged before by the Assyrians, as you mentioned.

Ryan:

Yeah.

Ryan:

So anyway.

Brian:

Yeah.

Brian:

And they laid siege to them.

Brian:

And then of course, the Babylonians later come and do it twice.

Ryan:

This is a common issue here.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

The idea of the cup is interesting, and it doesn't really get developed here.

Brian:

But Zechariah is clearly, I think, drawing on earlier prophetic language about cup.

Brian:

And so this is the cup of wrath, particularly, is what we often will talk about.

Brian:

So this is from Isaiah 51, Isaiah 51.

Brian:

This is verse 22 and 23, and it's a similar kind of idea.

Brian:

But did you notice?

Brian:

The nations will drink of the cup of Jerusalem, and it will send them reeling is kind of the image that we have there.

Brian:

So here's what 22 says.

Brian:

This is what your sovereign Lord says, your God who defends his people.

Brian:

And I'll go ahead and just stop and say, that's Isaiah.

Brian:

But really that's the emphasis in Zechariah, chapter 12.

Brian:

God is able to defend his people.

Brian:

So this is what the sovereign Lord says, your God who defends his people.

Brian:

See, I have taken out of your hand the cup that made you stagger.

Brian:

From that cup, the goblet of my wrath.

Brian:

You will never drink again.

Brian:

I will put it into the hands of your tormentors, who said to you, fall prostrate, that we might walk on you.

Brian:

And you made your back like the ground, like a street to be walked on.

Brian:

So it's talking here about kind of the image of drunkenness, like you take a cup and you drink of the cup of God's wrath.

Brian:

We see this in the book of Revelation as well, obviously later.

Brian:

But back here in Isaiah, it's like God's saying, I'm taking the cup of wrath away from you, Israel.

Brian:

It made you stagger, but I'm now going to give it to your enemies, and they're going to drink of my wrath, and it's going to cause them to stagger.

Brian:

So I think Zechariah is drawing on that kind of language.

Brian:

That's not we see in Obadiah.

Brian:

We see it in some other earlier prophets as well.

Brian:

But Isaiah, I think, is the clearest reference.

Brian:

But Zechariah talks about that Jerusalem is going to become a cup that the nations drink of, and it causes them.

Ryan:

To reel or stagger, feel the wrath of God.

Brian:

Yeah.

Brian:

And the idea is like, if you've had too much to drink and you're kind of stumbling around, you're out of control.

Brian:

That's the kind of image I think that we have here.

Brian:

It's even interesting.

Brian:

I read one commentary that was talking about.

Brian:

It's like the nations think that they'll be able to very easily drink from this cup of Jerusalem.

Brian:

In other words, they'll be able to easily plunder it.

Brian:

But instead they're going to drink of God's wrath and it's going to cause them to stumble, essentially, is kind of the idea.

Brian:

So that's what we have in verse two.

Brian:

So go ahead, then, read verses three through five.

Brian:

Let's look at a longer section.

Brian:

This again is Zechariah 12.

Ryan:

On that day when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations.

Ryan:

All who try to move it will injure themselves.

Ryan:

On that day.

Ryan:

I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness, declares the Lord.

Ryan:

I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations.

Ryan:

Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, the people of Jerusalem are strong because the Lord Almighty is their God.

Brian:

So really some really interesting, cool images here that are there a little bit differently.

Brian:

Again, just to summarize, I think what's in view is that God is the one who's able to defend his people.

Brian:

Notice that it begins there in verse three, with this idea of on that day.

Brian:

And then verse four repeats that idea on that day.

Brian:

We're talking like that eschatological, what we often call the Day of the Lord, right?

Brian:

This.

Brian:

This eschatological time, the end time, when God is going to bring about justice, when he's going to care for his people, but also bring judgment upon the nations, upon those who've done evil to God's people.

Brian:

Now, here's the difficulty here.

Brian:

We have to think about the question as we're looking through all of this.

Brian:

And I had to think about it again.

Brian:

I have to say, are we thinking about physical Jerusalem here?

Brian:

Are we talking about the literal city of Jerusalem?

Brian:

Or are.

Brian:

Are we thinking about the city of God like we see in the Book of Revelation, for example, the New Jerusalem, which stands for God's people.

Brian:

So who is it that God is talking about protecting here?

Brian:

We've actually had some people ask us, we've gone through Zechariah, ask about this.

Brian:

We obviously have things going on right now, politically and militarily in this area of Israel and Jerusalem.

Brian:

So let me just talk about the images and we have to kind of think about this, right?

Brian:

And I'll go ahead and tell you, my first inclination would be to say we're talking about spiritual Jerusalem, right?

Brian:

That's my training.

Brian:

That's the way I would typically think.

Brian:

But at the same time, it's very interesting to see the way that Israel and Jerusalem is today.

Brian:

Even though there are many who attack it, both the north and the south, Israel is receiving attacks.

Brian:

But I will say this very clearly.

Brian:

National Israel today is not the same as God's people, Israel as we read about in the Old Testament.

Brian:

And so again, I tend to lean towards spiritual Jerusalem.

Brian:

But let me talk about these images.

Ryan:

Yeah, I was going to say I agree with you.

Ryan:

Why would you say that?

Ryan:

Because I think that is always part of the contention is like, well, why aren't they the nation of Israel as they once were?

Brian:

Well, that's a huge question.

Brian:

I think there's lots of reasons for that.

Brian:

The main one is that God, what I would understand, and this goes.

Brian:

Let me throw out some passages here.

Brian:

Romans, chapters 9, 11.

Brian:

I think Paul talks about this.

Brian:

But Israel, the way that he would understand it includes all of God's people who've come to God through Christ because of the stage at which we are in God's revealing of his plan.

Brian:

Paul would say, say Jewish people like himself who have come to Christ are now a part of that true Israel.

Brian:

So that's one reason there's a development that has taken place where Christ came.

Brian:

We will say he fulfilled many of the plans that God had and had that role for Himself, but then also began drawing a people to himself.

Brian:

So he chose 12 apostles.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

And there's.

Brian:

There's this idea of the people that he draws around Himself that I would now see as true Israel.

Brian:

And again, I will readily admit there are people who think differently than this.

Brian:

And again, I can understand why to a certain extent.

Brian:

So that's one reason.

Brian:

Second reason is this, is that even the modern, let's call it the modern state of Israel, there's no direct continuity between the modern state of Israel and ancient Israel.

Brian:

Do you see what I'm saying right now?

Brian:

There are Jewish people who trace their lineage back, who would live in modern Israel, who could trace their lineage back to ancient Israel in that sense.

Brian:

But I'm talking in terms of the political establishment of modern Israel.

Brian:

It's not a direct.

Brian:

I would not understand it to be a direct descendant.

Brian:

Does that make sense from ancient Israel?

Ryan:

So there was no Tel Aviv back in ancient Israel, is what you're trying to say?

Brian:

Well, not just that.

Brian:

And that's what messes it up some too, because we do have Jerusalem there.

Brian:

Right?

Ryan:

I'm joking.

Ryan:

It was more of a side joke.

Brian:

But it's a difficult question.

Brian:

And I realize there are many who disagree with me on that.

Brian:

The one concern I have is I think we have to be very careful how do I say this?

Brian:

I think we have to be very careful.

Brian:

I need to be careful on how I say this.

Brian:

I think we need to be very careful in drawing that direct connection because it will perhaps make us respond in a way toward political developments and military developments in Israel.

Brian:

That I say is we should be more nuanced about and think more carefully about the implications for all of the people, including the Christians.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

In the region, like Christians in Lebanon and Christians in Syria and other places.

Brian:

You've got to remember there's been a long tradition of churches in those places, of course, in Israel as well, but also in Syria and in Lebanon and other places in the region, there are long historical Christian communities that have lived in those places as well.

Brian:

And I think we have to be careful in making sure that we're.

Brian:

We're thinking about that as well.

Brian:

I don't, I don't know how well I stated that.

Brian:

Does that bring, does that answer your question?

Brian:

No, it bring out other questions to you.

Ryan:

Every time I've.

Ryan:

I feel like I've had that discussion.

Ryan:

It always comes, well, why?

Ryan:

Why?

Ryan:

That's the, that's the distinction.

Ryan:

I think that that is.

Ryan:

That that's helpful in that discussion.

Ryan:

Yeah.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

And there's more we could say, but.

Ryan:

Yeah, there is a lot more that we could say.

Brian:

Probably not going to say that today.

Brian:

So let's look at this image, though.

Brian:

And again, this is part of the reason I can understand those who would say, well, we're talking about a prophecy that we're seeing fulfilled now.

Brian:

The first one is this idea of Israel as an immovable rock that I will make Jerusalem this kind of a sticking rock.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

That cannot be moved for all the nations.

Brian:

All who try will injure themselves.

Brian:

The idea is that they'll break themselves on the rock as they're even trying to move the rock.

Brian:

And then furthermore, we have this image of the horses and riders, which is a military term, will be thrown into confusion.

Brian:

Basically, it's like the horses will be blind.

Brian:

And we've all seen this depicted probably in movies.

Brian:

Horses that kind of go.

Brian:

How would say, are spooked or bothered, and they just kind of go wild.

Brian:

It reminds me, and I think it harkens back.

Brian:

You talked about creation earlier.

Brian:

It calls us back to the Exodus narrative.

Brian:

And you have there the horse and the rider that are thrown into the sea.

Brian:

Even Egypt in all of its power could not pursue God's people because God interfered.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

And again, so however you understand this, and I don't want to be enemies if you understand this differently than I do.

Brian:

But however we understand it, the primary focus here is that God is able to keep his people.

Brian:

And that's even what we see.

Brian:

I think in that last part.

Brian:

I'll just read part of it again then.

Brian:

All the clans of Judah, so people surrounding Jerusalem, all the clowns, clans of Judah, will say in their hearts, the people of Jerusalem are strong because the Lord Almighty is their God.

Brian:

In other words, it's not about who they are, it's not about them, it's about their God.

Brian:

And I think that's the same again with us, with spiritual Jerusalem.

Brian:

We are able to stand not because there's anything special about us or anything unique about us, but it's the power of our God that allows us to stand in the face of difficulties.

Brian:

So the focus is God's power either way, Right?

Ryan:

Yeah.

Ryan:

Well, it's good.

Brian:

Okay, let me.

Brian:

Go ahead.

Brian:

Well, you can read verse six then, if.

Ryan:

Okay, let me ask one question.

Ryan:

As we kind of move before we move on to this.

Ryan:

So on that day, I mean, so.

Brian:

Right.

Ryan:

I know we see this in other places.

Ryan:

So, like, let me just talk about in theological terms, like, the theologians agree, like, that this is like, not just a day.

Ryan:

Like, it is an eschatological age.

Brian:

I think so.

Ryan:

Or potentially an age.

Ryan:

Not maybe not in here, but like, as that phrase is used throughout all of Scripture, it's not just maybe pertaining to a day, but it is an age.

Brian:

We should do a whole episode on this.

Brian:

It'd probably be good.

Brian:

But.

Brian:

Yeah, I think you're exactly right.

Brian:

Joel is one of the places where we see the day of the Lord used frequently.

Brian:

And this is the example that I'm going to use that I think makes the clearest sense.

Brian:

Here's how my hermeneutics teacher taught me when I was in college.

Brian:

He would say, well, there are many days of the Lord.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

It says on that day and talks about the day of the Lord.

Brian:

But then you might remember we have Peter on the day of Pentecost talking about the day of the Lord.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

So you could talk about it in terms of the age, but I think we're also talking about any time that we see a major turning in the plans of God and him bringing about something new and something, not a change, but a turning.

Brian:

A turning.

Brian:

Yeah, that would be a better way to put it, probably.

Brian:

But Pentecost marked a turning point in the history of God's people.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

And where Peter's talking about the pouring out of the Spirit upon all people there in that place, we can talk about that as the day of the Lord.

Brian:

But then we're also looking forward to this time where Christ will return and where all will be made, right?

Brian:

Where what we often say, the consummation, the final act in God's redemptive plan, we can also look forward to the day of the Lord.

Brian:

So you're talking about the age.

Brian:

And I would say both of those are examples of days of the Lord.

Brian:

And here's where I may be a little bit different than some others.

Brian:

I would say also, for example, when Jerusalem was besieged in AD 70, and we see that cataclysmic event that Jesus talks about, in my opinion, in eschatological terms, right?

Brian:

The end of the world kind of terms.

Brian:

There are days of the Lord like that that can come and not to get too.

Brian:

Not to spiritualize this too much.

Brian:

But there are ways in which the day of the Lord will come to each of us at some point, right?

Brian:

Where it is the end for us.

Brian:

Now, whether that's in like some of our brothers and sisters experience in major persecutions or major warfare, something like that, I think you can see that as an ending day, right?

Brian:

Or whether it happens for us at the end of our lives as we grow old and our bodies fail us.

Brian:

That also is an eschatological event where we transition from this life into the age to come and whatever that looks like, does that make sense?

Brian:

So I think we're thinking about any of those times of, I said turning point.

Brian:

But the other side of the coin, so to speak, is a time of crisis, right?

Brian:

It's a time when we're brought into a place where we have to make our decision for standing for God, whether that's again, the end of our lives or whether that's when we're being persecuted like we see with our brothers and sisters.

Brian:

I just came from International Conference on missions, and they talked a lot about the persecuted church.

Brian:

We had people speak who've been persecuted, who've spent time in prison because of their faith.

Brian:

And it just brings it home that this is a reality even today for us.

Brian:

It's not just something that happened back in the Bible times, right?

Brian:

But it's something that happens even now.

Brian:

But.

Brian:

But what's the message?

Brian:

What's the message?

Brian:

Whether it's for our persecuted brothers and sisters or whether it's us as our bodies fail us, whether it is, you know, the people, the Christians in Jerusalem in 70 AD as Titus and Vespasian come and begin to surround seed, lay siege to Jerusalem again and break down its walls, by the way, and cast down its stones and so forth for all of them.

Brian:

The message is that God is able to keep his people.

Brian:

It's his power that allows them to stand.

Brian:

Even if Jerusalem is cast down like we see in the time of A.D.

Brian:

70, and for a period of time, Jerusalem is in shambles again.

Brian:

But I don't think that.

Brian:

I don't.

Brian:

And that's another reason, perhaps, I would say I don't think we're thinking here about the literal city of Jerusalem as much as we are God's people.

Brian:

That God is able to keep his people even in the midst of that.

Ryan:

Gotcha.

Ryan:

Good.

Brian:

Okay, that was great.

Ryan:

A little discourse there.

Brian:

So verse six, then we have another image.

Brian:

It says, on that day, I will make the clans of Judah like a fire pot in a wood pile.

Brian:

So imagine a fire pot in a wood pile.

Brian:

Wood pile, course, is going to be wood that will burn easily.

Brian:

That's why it's in a pile.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

It's meant for consumption.

Brian:

And a fire pot is this idea of we don't use it too much anymore.

Brian:

But in a time where it was hard to, you know, you didn't have lighters and so forth, you know, that fire was a valuable commodity.

Brian:

And so a fire pot would be someplace that you could carry tar or something that would burn and keep that fire, keep that fire going.

Brian:

Charcoal.

Brian:

And so the idea of something that's very flammable in the midst of very flammable material is the image that we have.

Brian:

And so it says, God's people or the clans of Judah are going to be like that.

Brian:

They're like a flaming torch among sheaves.

Brian:

We just went through the harvest here in central Illinois, and every year you have fires in dry harvest fields, right?

Brian:

The fields are dry.

Brian:

That's.

Brian:

That's the time you harvest them.

Brian:

And when you take machinery in, there's things that can happen.

Brian:

Or, you know, we get windy weather sometimes, and a spark can ignite a fire in a field.

Brian:

And it moves very quickly.

Brian:

It burns very quickly.

Brian:

And that's the image here we have again.

Brian:

It's like a flaming torch among sheaves like this.

Brian:

They would be picturing the wheat harvest, and the sheaves have been gathered together, so it burns quickly.

Brian:

They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.

Brian:

So again, even though all else around it is consumed and burnt up, Jerusalem then.

Ryan:

And it's the clans of Judah that are doing the consuming here, right?

Brian:

I think so, yeah.

Brian:

So and we're going to get to that, in just a minute, we're going to have these images and.

Brian:

Well, in fact, go ahead and reverse seven through nine, because I think that's exactly the point he's going to make here.

Brian:

It's not just the elite people, Right.

Brian:

Those in the city, but it's also those in the outlying areas as well.

Ryan:

The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and Jerusalem's inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah.

Ryan:

On that day, the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them.

Ryan:

On that day, I will set up to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.

Brian:

So it talks about the house of David here, and we're thinking here about the king.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

The elite ones.

Brian:

David was a hero to the people.

Brian:

His reign was seen as the golden age in Israel.

Brian:

And so he says even the weakest, even the feeblest among you is going to be like King David.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

Even the least person.

Brian:

It says the dwellings of Judah, and that actually the word there could be translated tents, all the tents of Judah.

Brian:

So the idea is you've got the walled city of Jerusalem and all these outlying areas where people would, in the time when an enemy was approaching, would run into the walled city.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

In order to be protected.

Brian:

But his point is that Judah will be protected in that way and they'll be lifted up.

Brian:

So it's not just the elites.

Brian:

This is, I would say, a parallel.

Brian:

I mentioned earlier, since I mentioned Pentecost, the parallel here would be, Joel, Chapter two, Right, where it says that my spirit will be poured out on all flesh, both the man and woman, both the slave and free.

Brian:

Your station, all that doesn't matter.

Brian:

That God's promise in Christ is available to all is the image.

Brian:

It's not just one person or the elite people, but it's available to all.

Ryan:

Yeah, I'm looking at Joel, too, right now.

Ryan:

There's a lot of strong parallels here between the two of them.

Brian:

Yeah.

Ryan:

About fire and horses and chariots and so forth.

Brian:

And this is the.

Brian:

So anytime we start getting interpretive and people want to make these very specific identifications, these are images that are used over and over again.

Brian:

It becomes the language of prophecy or becomes the language of apocalyptic.

Brian:

So you're going to expect the moon to turn to blood in the great day of our Lord, the coming of our Lord.

Brian:

And so this is the cataclysmic kind of language, earthquakes and winds and fire and all this kind of stuff.

Brian:

It's images of enemies coming and attacking.

Brian:

It's images of the natural order of things being upset.

Brian:

And in that time, in those times when things are like this, God's people will stand because he's able to keep them.

Ryan:

Yeah, that reminds me, I first got a kind of glimpse of that myself, is.

Ryan:

You had me read the book Plowshares and fishing hooks.

Brian:

Yeah.

Ryan:

And pruning hooks.

Brian:

Pruning hooks, Yeah.

Brian:

I almost mentioned that book just a minute ago because that's where he's talking about there.

Brian:

Go ahead.

Ryan:

Yeah, yeah.

Ryan:

But just this idea, and it kind of clicked for me when I read that book, is that there's so many.

Ryan:

There's these repeated phrases that happen over and over again.

Ryan:

And it doesn't necessarily mean literalness, but it is a generalized statement of.

Ryan:

I mean, that was the one that stuck out for me.

Ryan:

But now we're seeing this generalized statements that keep repeating themselves of how, in ways they might be judged.

Ryan:

Even though we know some of these places that were judged in the Old Testament, what actually happened to them didn't correlate precisely to the prophecy itself, but they were judged.

Ryan:

So it's just this idea that we have a common language here that's describing what's going on here.

Brian:

Yeah, Brent Sandy is the author of that book.

Brian:

It's a really great book.

Brian:

He did a really good job.

Brian:

Old Testament guy.

Brian:

I think I'm right.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

It's Brent Sandy.

Brian:

But he did a really good job of talking about the language of Old Testament prophecy, Old Testament apocalyptic.

Brian:

And like you said, it's just these repeated phrases.

Brian:

It's that language that comes to stand for certain things.

Brian:

And the funny thing is, we use language that way.

Brian:

Of course, now I'm never going to be able to think of an example in English, but we don't mean the literal by it.

Brian:

But we'll say things like, well, that's, you know, they destroyed them.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

Or top drawer.

Brian:

You know, that's something that's top drawer.

Brian:

Or.

Brian:

Yeah, that's a bad example.

Brian:

Yeah, just destroyed.

Brian:

We destroyed that other team.

Brian:

Or.

Brian:

Yeah, we killed them.

Brian:

Yeah, you really.

Brian:

You killed them, you know, because that's.

Brian:

I think that's against the rules.

Brian:

But, you know, the.

Brian:

We use that kind of language and we don't think.

Brian:

We don't think a thing about it because it's become.

Brian:

It's become a part of our idiomatic expression.

Brian:

And that's all that, you know, one interpretation.

Brian:

The Reason interpretation is necessary is because we're talking about the idiomatic language of other people and other cultures and other times.

Brian:

And we have to familiarize ourselves with that.

Brian:

And that's what books like.

Brian:

I'm not going to remember now.

Ryan:

Plowshares.

Brian:

Plowshares and Pruning Hooks.

Ryan:

It's an excellent book.

Brian:

Yeah, we have it.

Brian:

Probably have it on our list.

Brian:

So.

Brian:

Yeah.

Ryan:

Thebiblebeastro.com if you're confused, we'll have it on there for you.

Brian:

Anyway, okay, so this is.

Brian:

We'll go ahead and read verse 10 then.

Brian:

For me.

Ryan:

And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication.

Ryan:

They will look on me, the ones they have pierced.

Ryan:

The one they have pierced.

Ryan:

That is important.

Ryan:

Sorry, slip.

Ryan:

They will look on me, the one they have pierced.

Ryan:

And they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Brian:

Interesting, isn't it?

Brian:

So let's start at the beginning here.

Brian:

Pour out is the idea of God's lavish gift, right?

Brian:

The way that he lavishly presents to his people.

Brian:

And particularly, I think we have in mind the saving work of the Messiah or the Christ, right, The anointed one who's going to come.

Brian:

And so it says, I'm going to pour out a spirit of grace and supplication.

Brian:

And that's an interesting kind of combination.

Brian:

So we understand that idea of God pouring out his grace, right, in Christ, in the Messiah, he's going to be gracious.

Brian:

Supplication is the idea of crying out for mercy.

Brian:

If you make supplications, you're crying out to God to save you, basically.

Brian:

Like, for example, on the day of triumphal entry, when the people were saying, save us, Lord, Hosanna.

Brian:

That was a supplication.

Brian:

Have mercy on us, we hear.

Brian:

And so I think it's the idea that not only has God heard our cries, but he has also responded.

Brian:

He's pouring out a spirit of grace and supplication.

Brian:

In other words, he's heard our cry for mercy and our cry for help, and he's responding lavishly with this.

Brian:

Then we get this really interesting phrase, they look upon the one they have pierced.

Brian:

Now, from a very early time, at least from the time of the Gospel of John, this was seen as a reference to the crucifixion of Jesus, in particular, John 19.

Brian:

I've studied the Gospel of John a little Bit.

Brian:

But one of the places that I have spent the most time studying is John, chapter 19.

Brian:

These verses, because they're one of the times where the author of the Gospel of John, basically, I always say, breaks the fourth wall, right, and speaks to the reader and says, you can trust me because I was there and I saw this.

Brian:

So I'm going to actually read a little bit more than I planned to read.

Brian:

But it comes down then to these two fulfilled prophecies is the way that he sees it.

Brian:

We call this the Kruphragium.

Brian:

It's the breaking of the thigh bones of those who are on the cross.

Brian:

It's a practice that was common in Roman times to speed up the death of the person being crucified.

Brian:

And of course, the whole concern is the high priests don't want the bodies to be left on the cross during the Sabbath, especially the Sabbath during Pentecost or Passover.

Brian:

We know that whole story.

Brian:

So it says in verse 32, the soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.

Brian:

But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.

Brian:

Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

Brian:

And I want to come back to that in a minute, but they pierced Jesus side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

Brian:

John, by the way, is the only gospel account that tells this story.

Brian:

If you didn't know that this is the only place where this occurs.

Brian:

The man who saw it, the one who saw it, has given testimony, and his testimony is true.

Brian:

He knows that he tells the truth and he testifies.

Brian:

So that you also may believe.

Brian:

There's basically three times in the Gospel of John the author does this.

Brian:

And again, that's not our point today.

Brian:

But there's something significant enough happening here in this point that the author, who I think is John, the author, says, I want you to know that I was there and I saw this myself.

Brian:

Now the question is, what is it that.

Brian:

What is it that makes it something that needs to be confirmed?

Brian:

Some people think it's the idea that both blood and water flowed out of his side, that that would have been an unusual thing.

Brian:

The water flowing out of Jesus side probably refers back to you.

Brian:

Remember we talked about the temple before and this idea that living water will flow from within him.

Brian:

If you go back to John chapter seven and the reference that he makes there, on the great day of the feast of Tabernacles, Anyone who's thirsty, let him come to me and drink.

Brian:

The one believing in me.

Brian:

As Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.

Brian:

And so this could be seen as a symbolic confirmation of Jesus prophecy, in that it's been understood in other ways differently.

Brian:

But anyway, one of the soldiers pierced you aside with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

Brian:

And the man who sought his given testimony.

Brian:

Testimony is very important in the Gospel of John.

Brian:

His testimony is true.

Brian:

He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe these things happened so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

Brian:

He mentions two scriptures that are really unusual prophecies.

Brian:

The first is, not one of his bones will be broken.

Brian:

And we've talked about this before.

Brian:

Do you remember where that's found?

Brian:

I'm putting you on the spot.

Ryan:

I don't know.

Brian:

It's Exodus 15.

Brian:

It's the instructions.

Brian:

Maybe 18.

Brian:

I can't remember the exact chapter, but I think it's 15.

Brian:

It's the instructions for how the Passover lamb is to be eaten.

Brian:

The Passover lamb is to be roasted whole.

Brian:

And not one of its bones.

Brian:

It should be a lamb without defect.

Brian:

Not one of its bones should be broken.

Brian:

And so John sees that as a fulfillment of Jesus being the Passover lamb.

Brian:

But then here's the other.

Brian:

And as another scripture says, they will look on the one they have pierced.

Brian:

So he sees the soldier coming along and piercing Jesus side, probably into the pericardial sack.

Brian:

We don't have to go into all that detail, but causing the sudden flow of blood and water to be a fulfillment.

Brian:

So the not breaking of the thigh bones is fulfilled prophecy.

Brian:

John says, and so is this idea that they pierced him, referring to this passage back in Zechariah, chapter 12.

Brian:

Okay, so John, at least you can't get much earlier than that, sees this as the fulfillment of the prophecy.

Brian:

In Zechariah, chapter 12, a reference to Jesus crucifixion, they will look on the one they pierced.

Brian:

It goes into all this idea of the mourning.

Brian:

And I think you caught this as you were reading it.

Brian:

There's a couple of different phrases here that make us think about Jesus as well.

Brian:

They will mourn as one mourns for an only child, right?

Brian:

It's bad enough if you have a kid die, but if it's your only child, right?

Brian:

And then this idea of the firstborn.

Brian:

And of course, we have in the Gospel of John again this idea of the monogenesis, the only begotten of the Father, and so I think that idea of they will mourn for Him.

Brian:

Now, exactly in what way will they mourn?

Brian:

Jesus says in the upper room in the Gospel of John that when the world is delighting, you will mourn.

Brian:

In other words, the followers of Jesus will mourn when they recognize that he has been taken away.

Brian:

But then he says that mourning will be turned to gladness.

Brian:

The other thing that some people will mention.

Brian:

So we have this idea of supplication.

Brian:

Spirit of supplication.

Brian:

I said that's crying out for God's mercy.

Brian:

Some people would see this as a reference to the idea that when we look at Christ's crucifixion, that he died on our behalf.

Brian:

It causes us to mourn.

Brian:

So mourn basically, not him, but as much as our sinful state, the fact that his death for us was necessary.

Brian:

But anyway, that's the idea, the mourning that I think we have here.

Brian:

Questions or comments before we move on?

Ryan:

Well, I guess my only question is the only thing that.

Ryan:

Do we see any connection between the cup that sends the surrounding people reeling and the pour out, like, is this.

Ryan:

Is this the same cup or.

Ryan:

Well, I'm just.

Ryan:

They're in pretty proximity to each other.

Brian:

I get what you're saying.

Brian:

It could be.

Brian:

I don't think so.

Brian:

And I'll tell you why I think the.

Ryan:

Because one's judgment and the other one.

Brian:

Is that's exactly at one salvation.

Brian:

So of course, according to tradition.

Brian:

Well, see, now we're getting way far afield.

Brian:

But according to tradition, the Holy Grail, which was this cup, was taken by the beloved disciple.

Brian:

And some of the blood that came from Jesus side was caught in the Holy Grail.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

And there's a whole tradition that goes along with that that I'm not going to get into.

Ryan:

Like only the penitent man shall pass.

Brian:

But I think that.

Ryan:

Is that Indiana Jones?

Ryan:

I don't know.

Brian:

I don't know.

Brian:

The, the, the.

Brian:

You've chosen poorly.

Brian:

That's all I remember.

Ryan:

Is that, Is that, Is that what Zachariah is referring to?

Ryan:

Is when.

Brian:

Yeah, it's a cup of a king.

Ryan:

Yeah, just watch Indiana Jones.

Ryan:

You got this, guys.

Brian:

Anyway, Last Crusade.

Brian:

Last Crusade.

Brian:

Yeah.

Brian:

Anyway, the, the best of the Indiana Jones.

Brian:

Yeah, but the.

Brian:

Sean, you got Sean Connery in there.

Brian:

But anyway, getting back to Zacharias.

Brian:

Yeah, the cup of Wrath.

Brian:

I think that's the difference is one is the cup of wrath and the other is this idea of cup of salvation.

Brian:

Now, that having been said, it is interesting that often we have this Kind of ironic nature in which the same message I talk about the two edged.

Ryan:

Sword, for example, one is a blessing and one's a.

Ryan:

It's a blessing for some and a curse for others.

Brian:

The cup of blessing, you know, we bless.

Brian:

That's First Corinthians.

Brian:

That's Paul talking about the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

So yeah, I don't think that's directly in view here is what I would say, but it's interesting.

Ryan:

That was my comment or question.

Brian:

You're welcome to prove something different.

Brian:

But okay, go ahead and read verse 11 and then I'm going to read a parallel or a reference here in second Chronicles.

Brian:

This one's not often one we see.

Ryan:

On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Ramon in the plain of Megiddo.

Brian:

Of course, you know, this reference, this always reminds me of that Star Trek episode where, well, never mind the alien race talks completely in metaphors.

Brian:

But anyway, this, this reference here is to the death of Josiah.

Brian:

And so it talks.

Brian:

Basically he's talking about the mourning and this would have been something that would have been immediately recognized by people.

Brian:

So I'm going to read about this.

Brian:

This is in 2 Chronicles 35, 2nd Chronicles 35.

Brian:

Starting in verse 22, it says this.

Brian:

Basically Josiah is facing the king, the Pharaoh of Egypt in battle.

Brian:

And Necho's the name of the other guy.

Brian:

Josiah, however, would not turn away from him, but disguise himself to engage him in battle.

Brian:

He would not listen to what Necho had said at God's command, but went to face him on the plain of Megiddo.

Brian:

Archers shot King Josiah and he told his officers, take me away, I am badly wounded.

Brian:

So they took him out of his chariot, put him in another chariot and brought him to Jerusalem, where he died.

Brian:

He was buried in the tombs of the ancestors and all Judah and Jerusalem mourned for him.

Brian:

But then listen to this.

Brian:

Jeremiah composed laments for Josiah.

Brian:

And to this day, all the male and female singers commemorate Josiah in the laments.

Brian:

These became a tradition in Israel and are written in the laments.

Brian:

So Josiah's death.

Brian:

So we're talking about a national tragedy, right?

Brian:

Something that happened.

Brian:

The death of a figure, a king.

Brian:

Right, the death of a king that everyone is mourning.

Brian:

And the best example that Zechariah can think of, that is King Josiah, people mourn for him so much that Jeremiah wrote lament just for people to sing every year.

Brian:

And so that's what he's referring to here when he's talking About Hadad Ramon on the plains of Megiddo.

Brian:

He's making reference to these laments that are still sung for King Josiah.

Brian:

And so that will be how it is.

Brian:

When they see the death of Jesus, they will have these laments that they sing for him because it's a great king that has died.

Brian:

So go back to Zechariah and we'll finish up this chapter.

Brian:

Just read verses 12 and 13.

Ryan:

Yeah.

Ryan:

The land will mourn each clan by itself, with their wives, by themselves.

Ryan:

The clan of the house of David and their wives.

Ryan:

The clan of the house of Nathan and their wives.

Ryan:

The clan of the house of Levi and their wives.

Ryan:

The clan of Shami.

Brian:

Shammai.

Ryan:

Shammai and their wives, and all the rest of the clans and their wives.

Brian:

So the wives are probably mentioned here because they were often ones who were officially mourners.

Brian:

You might remember in John 11, you've got the story of the death of.

Brian:

What's that guy's name?

Ryan:

Lazarus.

Brian:

Lazarus.

Brian:

Thank you.

Ryan:

You know that one guy that was.

Brian:

That one.

Brian:

That dead guy.

Ryan:

So that narrows it down to pretty much all of human history.

Ryan:

Leaves out Jesus.

Brian:

Well, let me.

Brian:

Let me make it a little bit more specific.

Brian:

The guy was.

Brian:

That was dead and brought back to life.

Brian:

Lazarus.

Ryan:

Well, now we got it down to a couple.

Ryan:

Just.

Brian:

So anyway, Lazarus, you know, his story of when Jesus comes there, it talks about the Jews that were there to mourn for him.

Brian:

And that's one of the things that people would do.

Brian:

They would literally cry out and lament and make noise.

Brian:

That was a part of the way that they grieved.

Brian:

And you would have people who would come, and especially, I think the mention of the wives, it was often these women that would come together and they would cry out in mourning for the person who's died.

Brian:

So I think that's all we're talking about, mentioning all these different clans is talking about the universal nature.

Brian:

This morning, everybody's going to be upset and mourn for this one when they see that he has been pierced.

Brian:

Now, I just wanted to finish and we'll talk about 13 next time we're together.

Brian:

But I want to read verse one, because it says, on that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to cleanse them from their sin and impurity.

Brian:

So a fountain will be opened up on that day to cleanse them from their sin.

Brian:

And we're going to find this later on, by the way, in Zechariah, chapter 14 as well.

Brian:

I've already talked about this idea of living water and the water that flowed from the side of Jesus.

Brian:

This captured the imagination of various theologians and songwriters over the years.

Brian:

And I mentioned this hymn by William Cowper, which is There is a fountain filled with blood.

Brian:

It comes from this kind of an image.

Brian:

A fountain will be opened up on that day in the house of the Lord.

Brian:

And so we have this idea.

Brian:

There's a fountain filled with blood drawn from Emmanuel's veins.

Brian:

And sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.

Brian:

So that fountain, that's going to be for the cleansing of God's people put together with the one they appeared in the flow of blood and water that we read about in John chapter 19 in the imagination of Cowper.

Brian:

And I will say others theologians, there are many theologians who see the connections here as well see this as a fountain of cleansing because of the blood of Jesus cleansing us from all sin.

Brian:

And so I just thought I would mention that in chapter 13 just so we can see that connection with chapter 12.

Brian:

We'll talk more about all of chapter 13 next week, but I just wanted to bring that in before we concluded.

Ryan:

Well, this is great, Brian.

Ryan:

Appreciate it.

Brian:

No problem.

Brian:

Any other, any last minute thoughts or ideas?

Ryan:

I am fresh out of thoughts for this one.

Brian:

You're using your thoughts in other places?

Ryan:

I'm using my many numerous thoughts in other places.

Brian:

Let me just say then if you like this, if you've liked any of our other podcasts, make sure to share it again.

Brian:

It's always encouraging when we hear even kind of here through the grapevine, that others are using our podcast.

Brian:

So make sure to share it with others that you think will find it useful.

Brian:

You can go to our website, which is thebiblebistro.com and you can find various resources there, books that we recommend like the one we mentioned earlier, Plowshares and.

Ryan:

Pretty Nooks by Brent Sandy.

Brian:

But.

Brian:

But yeah, do do that.

Brian:

And here's the other thing.

Brian:

We haven't said this too much, but go and like us on whatever, whatever.

Ryan:

Pause on Facebook or go to Apple podcast.

Ryan:

You can subscribe, fill it, you know, give us a review we'd like that helps other people find us as well.

Brian:

Exactly.

Brian:

So thank you very much and yeah, we'll talk again soon.

Brian:

Hopefully.

Ryan:

Yes, sounds good.

Ryan:

Thanks, Brian.

Brian:

All right, talk to you later.

Ryan:

Talk to you later.

Brian:

Bye.

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About the Podcast

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Ryan and Brian's Bible Bistro
A podcast about the Bible, theology, and all things related to the Christian faith. Hosted by Ryan Sarver and Brian Johnson..

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About your hosts

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Brian Johnson

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Ryan Sarver